Ireland - England @ New Landsdowne Road, Dublin (27-08-2011, 14:30 GMT)

[gingergenius]

People are looking into this too much. The way I see it is....
-Johnson is Captain
-England win world cup
-Johnson retires with others (including Clive)
-Dark years ensue with Robinson and Ashton.
-England do appalling.
-Johnson is Coach
- England win in Cardiff,Dublin, AUSTRALIA and the 6 nations for first time since 2003.

You can't throw rookies into an unsettled side and expect them to do well. *cough* Mathew Tait

I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the 90s when an English defeat to any Celtic side was an embarrassment. Winning in Cardiff isn't the benchmark, winning one warmup game in Dublin isn't the benchmark, winning one game in Australia is OK until we lost to NZ & SA at home, and winning a 6N means **** all unless you get a grand slam.

If the English coaches' ambitions are as low as yours, then no wonder we're going into this world cup in a bit of a mess.

And there's a difference between an 18 year old rookie who's hardly played in the Prem, and a 23/4 year old who's got several seasons making Hape and Banahan look ****ing ordinary.

@ Peat, yes we've drifted slightly. I maintain that the youngsters he's picked have on the whole been bleeding obvious, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

And the jury's out on Graham Henry with this world cup, but he does have some very positive win-loss records from the last 6 years or so to back his selections up. Johnson has two solitary victories over 3N opposition, out of five or six attempts, most at home.

 

[calculon]

I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the 90s when an English defeat to any Celtic side was an embarrassment. Winning in Cardiff isn't the benchmark, winning one warmup game in Dublin isn't the benchmark, winning one game in Australia is OK until we lost to NZ & SA at home, and winning a 6N means **** all unless you get a grand slam.

If the English coaches' ambitions are as low as yours, then no wonder we're going into this world cup in a bit of a mess.

And there's a difference between an 18 year old rookie who's hardly played in the Prem, and a 23/4 year old who's got several seasons making Hape and Banahan look ****ing ordinary.

@ Peat, yes we've drifted slightly. I maintain that the youngsters he's picked have on the whole been bleeding obvious, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

And the jury's out on Graham Henry with this world cup, but he does have some very positive win-loss records from the last 6 years or so to back his selections up. Johnson has two solitary victories over 3N opposition, out of five or six attempts, most at home.

Both you and TRF_Olly have unbelievable rose tinted lenses. England are ordinary. You will do well in the world cup the way you always do well - by kicking conversions or barreling over your heavy-weights. In terms of young players, you need to bring Samoans in cause you don't have it. You don't have the ERC young player of the year or a top young fly half. If your young players were that good you'd have won the ERC - oh sorry your teams don't have any English players in them.
England will always be up there because you have so many rugby players, but considering that you have 10 times more than Australia (actually more like 20x) you're a bit of a joke. Also, it' you that holds us back - belittling Ireland at every turn. If we could just play rugby without having to ever play England, outside a world cup, that would be better.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Both you and TRF_Olly have unbelievable rose tinted lenses.

What?!
By saying England aren't in good shape we've got rose tinted glasses?

Also, it' you that holds us back - belittling Ireland at every turn. If we could just play rugby without having to ever play England, outside a world cup, that would be better.

All I can see is "Wah wah wah"

 

[Gavin]

Both you and TRF_Olly have unbelievable rose tinted lenses. England are ordinary. You will do well in the world cup the way you always do well - by kicking conversions or barreling over your heavy-weights. In terms of young players, you need to bring Samoans in cause you don't have it. You don't have the ERC young player of the year or a top young fly half. If your young players were that good you'd have won the ERC - oh sorry your teams don't have any English players in them.
England will always be up there because you have so many rugby players, but considering that you have 10 times more than Australia (actually more like 20x) you're a bit of a joke. Also, it' you that holds us back - belittling Ireland at every turn. If we could just play rugby without having to ever play England, outside a world cup, that would be better.

First of all I am Irish and find your comments utterly stupid.

1. If England are ordinary, then what are Ireland?
2. You mention they only kick conversions and use heavy-weights; this implies that England score tries and that is how you believe they win. (I think you meant to say they kick penalties, which would be wrong as they out-scored Ireland 2-0 in tries).
3. Manu came through the England schools program, so is probably more English than others in the squad.
4. Correct, England don't have the ERC player of the year; many nations don't but still play well.
5. England have loads of young fly-halves in reserve; Ford is one that comes to mind.
6. I assure you that is Ireland was larger and had more competitive teams playing in the European Cup we'd have more non-Irish playing for each club.

Either-way, your post is rubbish.

 

[calculon]

First of all I am Irish and find your comments utterly stupid.

1. If England are ordinary, then what are Ireland?
2. You mention they only kick conversions and use heavy-weights; this implies that England score tries and that is how you believe they win. (I think you meant to say they kick penalties, which would be wrong as they out-scored Ireland 2-0 in tries).
3. Manu came through the England schools program, so is probably more English than others in the squad.
4. Correct, England don't have the ERC player of the year; many nations don't but still play well.
5. England have loads of young fly-halves in reserve; Ford is one that comes to mind.
6. I assure you that is Ireland was larger and had more competitive teams playing in the European Cup we'd have more non-Irish playing for each club.

Either-way, your post is rubbish.

I was mainly just flame-baiting them, you shouldn't have interrupted. But England are ordinary. I predict that they will struggle in 2 if not 3 of their group games. I'm glad you think Ireland are less than ordinary. That's usually when they start playing well!

...


All I can see is "Wah wah wah"

Well said!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

An English team did win an ERC trophy anyway - and in beating Munster (in Thomond) fielded the same amount of English players in their starting XV as Munster fielded Irish

 

[calculon]

An English team did win an ERC trophy anyway - and in beating Munster (in Thomond) fielded the same amount of English players in their starting XV as Munster fielded Irish

Thanks for the merge. Anyway, Ireland will definitely be underdogs again but I can't see them succeeding any other way. They won the slam as underdogs, and only beat England in the last 6N games as complete underdogs at that stage. Leinster were prob. underdogs in the ERC as they had the toughest route. It might be what Ireland need - hope so. I want them to play well, and at least get out to the semis but injuries may hamper them.

 

[Gavin]

The only reason Ireland are constantly described as underdogs is because they have never sustained a performance for more than a couple of games. They have the players but can't seem to string together more than four games in a row.

 

[JW.]

Why r u trying to flame/hate us so badly? I see England having a better chance at the WC than Ireland have, and there's no point just flaming people/countries without valid arguments. And just going back to the old you have more players than we do...

 

[calculon]

The only reason Ireland are constantly described as underdogs is because they have never sustained a performance for more than a couple of games. They have the players but can't seem to string together more than four games in a row.

That and the fact that they've never got to the SF of a world cup. They usually come out on the losing side in close games with SH teams, have bad luck - getting stuck with an in-form Argentina in group games, and now possibly Italy, often get plagued with injuries, and have never actually beaten the AB's in a test game, though Munster have.

Why r u trying to flame/hate us so badly? I see England having a better chance at the WC than Ireland have, and there's no point just flaming people/countries without valid arguments. And just going back to the old you have more players than we do...

Sorry man, I'll tone down the hatefulness. I think without injuries we're slightly better. But that's only if their minds aren't all over the place..

EDIT: on old players - they have to bring the likes of BOD because they are still class players even if old. There are allot of young players too - 15 <30, and 15 > with several of these young players being ERC champions

 

[j-dawg]

You are a terrible person.

 

[calculon]

You are a terrible person.

Yes, because anyone who puts the overrated English in their place is.. terrible.
You're right j-dawg.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't understand your need to "put England in their place" considering no one is talking them up, no one is claiming their going to win the world cup, the only mention of anything similar is when you're saying that that's not going to happen...

 

[calculon]

I don't understand your need to "put England in their place" considering no one is talking them up, no one is claiming their going to win the world cup, the only mention of anything similar is when you're saying that that's not going to happen...

England fans fall into 2 categories - the decent ones that just see it as it is, and the ones that feel England has some hereditary right to be the top NH team in the world cup, especially against other "Celtic" nations, and especially against Scotland and Wales - it's just a vibe I get from certain English fans on their high horse, which is towing a shiny sweet chariot. & I don't like it personally.

 

[Thingimubob]

Personally I think England have a very awkward group, and it's not as if their going to the World Cup without plenty of problems and daft choices of players. Didn't have the worst warm up series, but still could've done a lot better imo! That said, their group doesn't exactly have the most exciting teams in the world, and wouldn't be surprised to see England grinding out wins. Atm I just wan't to see Georgia upset someone
Ireland do not look good atm, injuries really aren't helping them either! Going into a World Cup with 4 losses in a row is not quite the preparation you want! Then again they might surprise us seeing there's not as much expectation on them as back in '07.

 

[calculon]

Personally I think England have a very awkward group, and it's not as if their going to the World Cup without plenty of problems and daft choices of players. Didn't have the worst warm up series, but still could've done a lot better imo! That said, their group doesn't exactly have the most exciting teams in the world, and wouldn't be surprised to see England grinding out wins. Atm I just wan't to see Georgia upset someone
Ireland do not look good atm, injuries really aren't helping them either! Going into a World Cup with 4 losses in a row is not quite the preparation you want! Then again they might surprise us seeing there's not as much expectation on them as back in '07.

If they were expected to do well, they'd probably cease up due to poor mental and physical preparation. It's the injuries I'd worry about. Now I have to decide who to support if and when Ireland bomb out. I think I'd support Italy, even if it's at our expense. After that, Scotland. England & Wales.. Noo000ooo00oo jk

 

[Feicarsinn]

I was out of reach for a few days surrounding the game and didn't happen to catch it. Quick description please? England won I see, as was to be expected. It's all looking a wee bit like 07' from here at the moment.

 

[JW.]

WE ARE SUPERIOR. Just joking ... am I?

But I do expect England to perform the best at the WC out of all the home nations. Because we have a decent group of players, ofcourse we have some 'problems' but if we finish top of the group. Which is most likely, to be fair? We have quite an easy QF and then Australia. Just can't see Ireland topping the group with Australia in there, which means they are 2nd and then have to play SA (most likely). Wales have a very hard task of trying to beat either Samoa (which they can) or SA, (or both of them). Scotland, well I'd say they'd do well to beat Argentina and then they'd have to play NZ (I think?).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I was out of reach for a few days surrounding the game and didn't happen to catch it. Quick description please? England won I see, as was to be expected. It's all looking a wee bit like 07' from here at the moment.

Earls leaked an early try by missing a tackle early on. We were behind from then until the end, showed no attacking promise, only had one try chance and Leamy f***ed it up. And the decision making was pretty s*ite especially from the back of rucks and penalties. Reddan looked better than Murray, Sexton better than O'Gara, Ferris not as good as O'Brien and Earls was*absolutely*pathetic.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads I've never seen so much rubbish for a warm up game on rubbish that has nothing to do with game.

Calculon what has history got to do with anything. In rugby the english fans are like Irish in that they love the sport and have banter etc. You meet odd one that think they are superior (Bullitt ) but overall they are great.
Having been there numerous times be it for Munster or Ireland games they really just have banter and well unlike some nations even when they loose they're gracious and like good rugby fans have the craic and enjoy the night.