Ireland 2016/2017

[munstermuffin]

Carberry's ability to hit his peak won't differ much depending on whether he spends the month playing for Leinster or soaking up the Ireland camp - if any - but Ireland's chances of getting a guy who can make an impact sooner rather than later go up a lot. Right decision I think. I'm all up for getting young talents in to learn and be ready.

Fair enough to Tracy if he's going great guns. Can't compare so won't but Herring is very unlucky.

On the Connacht thing - as a rule guys don't get into and stay in the Ireland (or any other international) set up based on one season. Its about putting together a consistent body of work so that coaches know what they're getting. Connacht had a big season last season but that was never going to sway much, rightly or wrongly. Its up to Connacht and its players to shine in big matches year in, year out.

Are there some hard done by Connacht players?

Buckley's unfortunate to play in a golden age for Irish looseheads. They've got a tighthead in. First choice hooker is a kiwi non?

Think you could make a case for Roux rather than Holland but in either case we're comparing one brand of barrel scraping to another*

Likewise for Adeolokun and O'Halloran vs Gilroy. Still shocked that Gilroy's finally in an Irish squad after making his least impressive claim to be there for some time. Maybe Adeolokun had plenty to work on but Gilroy won't play against the All Blacks and neither would have either of the Westies if selected.

*In fairness, there's a big difference in that Holland is 31 and Roux is 25. Roux has a future, Holland maybe has a present if he's lucky. I still hold this is utterly inexplicable, no matter how many tackles he's made. He's not one for the future and isn't making a case for a first choice international selection.

On the end your right in 1 aspect but I think we all know it is kind of irrelevant as neither will really be used. They just a number in squad.

 

[Groundhog]

Who needs the distant future when we have a shot at beating the All Blacks in a months time.
Holland for captain.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Schmidt has gone Irish over project player on the 50/50 calls which I think is fair. He's gone wrong only in not picking O'Haloran but at least having only Payne, Zebo and Kearney as 15 options suggests Payne will play 15. Kearney's form doesn't warrant a start and Zebo is not a Joe Schmidt fullback.

 

[Groundhog]

Latest squad announcement has reminded me why I don't touch boards.ie. John Ryan is apparently a fad player since the Leinster game where he got absolutely destroyed in that game anyway I'm reading. Christ wept. Muldoon should be called up as well apparently.

 

[Amiga500]

McCloskey is injured.

For whoever mentioned him, Olding also isn't deserving of a place, form has been very average so far. His repertoire this season has consisted of show and goes, invariably followed up by a big hit due to the defender not buying the by now obvious.

 

[Peat]

On the end your right in 1 aspect but I think we all know it is kind of irrelevant as neither will really be used. They just a number in squad.

But its not irrelevant, because that is still experience with the squad that goes towards giving players a chance to slot into the Ireland set-up. If the player is not going to be used, then the slot in the squad should be going to a young gun who may play a part going forwards.

Schmidt has gone Irish over project player on the 50/50 calls which I think is fair. He's gone wrong only in not picking O'Haloran but at least having only Payne, Zebo and Kearney as 15 options suggests Payne will play 15. Kearney's form doesn't warrant a start and Zebo is not a Joe Schmidt fullback.

Only three other centres other than Payne though. My guess is Henshaw-Payne with Kearney at 15, which I think would be a backwards step.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But its not irrelevant, because that is still experience with the squad that goes towards giving players a chance to slot into the Ireland set-up. If the player is not going to be used, then the slot in the squad should be going to a young gun who may play a part going forwards.



Only three other centres other than Payne though. My guess is Henshaw-Payne with Kearney at 15, which I think would be a backwards step.

You're probably right for Chicago which is really just a shot in the dark for us with very little time to prepare but when they come to Dublin Ringrose has to be in the team and Payne in at FB. We know what Schmidt is like with his systems, he knows after his starts with both Leinster and Ireland that they don't work until the players know them so if he thinks Ringrose is ready to fit in in two weeks and Maybe can run from 15 I would them to start, I doubt he will think that way though!

 

[munstermuffin]

But its not irrelevant, because that is still experience with the squad that goes towards giving players a chance to slot into the Ireland set-up. If the player is not going to be used, then the slot in the squad should be going to a young gun who may play a part going forwards.



Only three other centres other than Payne though. My guess is Henshaw-Payne with Kearney at 15, which I think would be a backwards step.

Yes but been fair there no young lock ready. I see it as Holland best out of guys who wont go on ever be internationals. Like Dave Foley and Henderson will be ahead when they return.
Schmidt requested Zebo be played more at 15 so he obviously sees him as option there.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yes but been fair there no young lock ready. I see it as Holland best out of guys who wont go on ever be internationals. Like Dave Foley and Henderson will be ahead when they return.
Schmidt requested Zebo be played more at 15 so he obviously sees him as option there.

Zebo has a future at 15 but he's not tge player we need to beat NZ yet. Unless Billy Dardis comes really good fast we'll have Zebo, TO'H and possibly Henshaw as 15 options in 2019.

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah Zebo's positioning needs a lot of work at 15. He hasn't perfected when to come into the line and not and can be caught out if a useful chip is put through on him. His defence has really improved on that wing though and he's made more than one try saving tackle this season. He's become quite a Schmidt friendly winger.

 

[munstermuffin]

Zebo has a future at 15 but he's not tge player we need to beat NZ yet. Unless Billy Dardis comes really good fast we'll have Zebo, TO'H and possibly Henshaw as 15 options in 2019.

Not being funny but at present Payne is only 15 we have that will beat New Zealand. Kearneys biggest strength is his aerial game. And thats all. That is irrelevant against All Blacks. Zebos is attack. Again not fully useful. Both are as poor as eachother defensively. Payne is the most rounded by a mile. I'd prefer Ringrose with Payne 15.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not being funny but at present Payne is only 15 we have that will beat New Zealand. Kearneys biggest strength is his aerial game. And thats all. That is irrelevant against All Blacks. Zebos is attack. Again not fully useful. Both are as poor as eachother defensively. Payne is the most rounded by a mile. I'd prefer Ringrose with Payne 15.

I wouldn't have Kearney in my 23. Zebo at 11, Payne 15.

 

[Groundhog]

I've been pretty cynical of Connacht here, but I genuinely believe that O'Halloran has the goods to be an international 15. Can make his tackles and is the wisest head in that Connacht backline. Has years of pro rugby on his side and is a wiley operator. Would be my number 23. Only weakness is his ability under high ball at times. Shame injuries stalled his career or I think he'd have broke through a few years back.
Kearney has been picked largely on rep, which I can understand to some extent because he makes few mistakes and knows how to do it at this level, as well as having a stormer when we last played NZ, but it's time to decommission him now. If he doesn't start, I don't believe he offers impact or versatility off the bench.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've been pretty cynical of Connacht here, but I genuinely believe that O'Halloran has the goods to be an international 15. Can make his tackles and is the wisest head in that Connacht backline. Has years of pro rugby on his side and is a wiley operator. Would be my number 23. Only weakness is his ability under high ball at times. Shame injuries stalled his career or I think he'd have broke through a few years back.
Kearney has been picked largely on rep, which I can understand to some extent because he makes few mistakes and knows how to do it at this level, as well as having a stormer when we last played NZ, but it's time to decommission him now. If he doesn't start, I don't believe he offers impact or versatility off the bench.

I agree on O'Halloran but not Kearney, he's not done yet, he's only 30. You only have to look at Gordon D'Arcy at the same age in 2010-2011. A lot of people were saying he was done with Leinster and Ireland, myself and munstermuffin among others included off the top of my head, but he ended up going on to have an important role in Leinster's 2012 Heineken cup win, Ireland's 2014 Six Nations win with the 2015 RWC probably just coming 6 months late for him to make it. Don't disregard Kearney yet, he's too intelligent of a footballer to do so.

 

[Groundhog]

I agree on O'Halloran but not Kearney, he's not done yet, he's only 30. You only have to look at Gordon D'Arcy at the same age in 2010-2011. A lot of people were saying he was done with Leinster and Ireland, myself and munstermuffin among others included off the top of my head, but he ended up going on to have an important role in Leinster's 2012 Heineken cup win, Ireland's 2014 Six Nations win with the 2015 RWC probably just coming 6 months late for him to make it. Don't disregard Kearney yet, he's too intelligent of a footballer to do so.

He's not done as a rugby player yet of course, but the thing to note is that D'Arcy was a stallwart in a time when their really was no backup who made a realistic push for his jersey. His form dipped, but his chemistry with BOD and defensive intelligence made up for his fading athleticism. He changed his game perfectly and made himself in disposable. Kearney on the other hand, while still a very solid rugby player as I've said has a guy who on his day is one of Europe's top fullbacks waiting in the wings. With regards his spot in the 23 you don't really bring on guys who are solid in pretty much every facet but not spectacular late in the game. You use guys who can chase the game and bring impact, which Kearney doesn't. So maybe Kearney does pick up his game and take his jersey back again, but he should do it for Leinster for now because the Irish team isn't the place to try and recover your form. Same goes for Healy and O'Brien as well honestly. What gives them the benefit of the doubt for me is the fact that at their best they're genuinely world class, game winning players, and you can't afford to leave them at home if they're fit.

 

[Amiga500]

I wouldn't have Kearney in my 23. Zebo at 11, Payne 15.

I wouldn't have Kearney in my pick of a squad of 46 never mind 23!

 

[munstermuffin]

The thing is though D'Arcy's strengths were still there. But in Kearney's case he doesn't have pace anymore which is vital in that position in todays game, I don't think he's good defensively which is vital (accept other may have different opinion) and just his form is poor.
To be fair I think Healy McGrath operation is right call. Both are going fine. SOB I hope stays fit. He will find his form if he stays fit.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'll just leave this here ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/37791927

The guy is some kind of god

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Based on guys who are in the squad for Chicago but not their provincial 23's I'd guess the starting XV will be

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Dillane
6. Stander
7. VdF (on the bench while SOB and POM start)
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Trimble
15. Payne

I'd have an ever so slightly different backrow but considering the options we have that's likely! Good team.

@big ginger 8 points out that I have forgotten Jordi Murphy. Not sure if I like the play but he has been in good form when played this season.

 

[munstermuffin]

Rumours the bench is going to be 6-2 split