Ireland 2016/2017

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think it'll be November. 12. Bundee 13. Ringrose 15. Henshaw could be very tasty!

 

[Groundhog]

Earls gets two weeks for his seismic toss.

 

[Groundhog]

Squad's in
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) captain
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)*
Sean Cronin (St Marys/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Tadgh Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Craig Gilroy (Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) vice captain
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ulster)
Jack McGrath (St Marys/Leinster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys/Leinster)
CJ Stander (Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

*denotes uncapped player

 

[profitius]

Missing out are Ross, Ruddock, Olding, Roux, McCloskey*, Kilcoyne, Bowe, O'Halloran, O'Donnell, Dave Kearney*,
I forgot to add Madigan and Marty Moore.


*Injured?.


I'm happy enough with the squad overall. I would have liked to see O'Halloran in there instead of Kearney and Olding in there with Payne moving to fullback.

 

[munstermuffin]

Congratulations John Ryan. Hugely deserved for great work

 

[Peat]

By position...

Bealham, Furlong, Healy, McGrath, Ryan
Best, Cronin, Tracy
Dillane, Henderson, Holland, Ryan, Toner
Heaslip, Murphy, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Stander, vdFlier
Murray, Marmion, McGrath
Carberry, Jackson, Sexton
Marshall, Henshaw, Ringrose
Earls, Gilroy, Kearney, Payne, Trimble, Zebo


What is Billy Holland doing there :mellow:

Oh gods Payne's back in the centre, not the back three. :mellow::mellow:

Haven't watched Leinster games so not sure how Tracy has been going but he must have been going like rocket fuel to be ahead of Herring.

Should make a good team but Schmidt still loves the odd puzzling squad decision. Incidentally I still find myself disagreeing with him over whether Gilroy should be in a squad - think some of the Connacht speedsters have been playing better rugby.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Tracy is probably our starter from here on out Pete, great thrower, good in the scrum and open play.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

O'Halloran overlooked due to Schmidt's love affair with the high ball I guess. As much as I like Schmidt to have success with Ireland without following the pure "open rugby" gameplan, I'm sorry for such talented backs as O'Halloran and Healy that they appear to be overlooked because of that. Is there any perception of anti-Connacht snobbery in Ireland? Not that I'd imagine a kiwi would indulge in that, but three players out of 34 from the reigning Pro12 champs seems utterly bizarre, despite Connacht's slow start to the season.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Look at their defensive record. Was O'Haloran not injured against Toulouse?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Congratulations John Ryan. Hugely deserved for great work

Seconded. If John Ryan shows up well, it's quite likely that we've seen the last of Mike Ross in an Ireland jersey. Ross is still a decent player but with the future in mind, it makes sense to promote Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham and John Ryan above him.

Congrats to James Tracy. He's an improving player. Personally, I'd have Rob Herring above him at the moment.

Surprised Billy Holland is there. He's an undersized 31 year old second row so I don't see much of an international future for him. That being said, I'm very happy for him. It's a great reward for a long career.

Stocks in both the second row and scrum half appear low.

Rapid ascent for Joey Carbery. He's hugely talented. I wonder would he be better served playing for Leinster than holding tackle bags for Ireland?

Exciting centres. I hope Jared Payne isn't considered for selection here. I suspect we'll see Henshaw and Ringrose with a back three of Trimble, Payne and Zebo. Kearney on the bench with Payne providing centre cover.

 

[munstermuffin]

Seconded. If John Ryan shows up well, it's quite likely that we've seen the last of Mike Ross in an Ireland jersey. Ross is still a decent player but with the future in mind, it makes sense to promote Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham and John Ryan above him.

Congrats to James Tracy. He's an improving player. Personally, I'd have Rob Herring above him at the moment.

Surprised Billy Holland is there. He's an undersized 31 year old second row so I don't see much of an international future for him. That being said, I'm very happy for him. It's a great reward for a long career.

Stocks in both the second row and scrum half appear low.

Rapid ascent for Joey Carbery. He's hugely talented. I wonder would he be better served playing for Leinster than holding tackle bags for Ireland?

Exciting centres. I hope Jared Payne isn't considered for selection here. I suspect we'll see Henshaw and Ringrose with a back three of Trimble, Payne and Zebo. Kearney on the bench with Payne providing centre cover.

Been honest Billy won't play. But is better than some of younger names.
On John Ryan. He's been vital in a Munster scrum that's on fire. And I think thats why Billy is in. He offers massively in scrums. But as you say options at lock are limited.
James Tracy for me deserves to be ahead of Herring. He's fought his way to be a starter and I think he's a more rounded player.
Payne should be 15. Ringrose showed last weekend he's and option and Henshaw with Ulster lads (I know Olding not there atm) means options are plenty. Also I think you'll see Sexton or Carberry play 12 at some stage too. PJ Sexton Henshaw at some stage.

Probably the toughest selection is backrow with most in good form

 

[westernforce]

O'Halloran overlooked due to Schmidt's love affair with the high ball I guess. As much as I like Schmidt to have success with Ireland without following the pure "open rugby" gameplan, I'm sorry for such talented backs as O'Halloran and Healy that they appear to be overlooked because of that. Is there any perception of anti-Connacht snobbery in Ireland? Not that I'd imagine a kiwi would indulge in that, but three players out of 34 from the reigning Pro12 champs seems utterly bizarre, despite Connacht's slow start to the season.

its more to do with irelands playing style..going through phases and not passing the ball a great deal...im dissappointed the likes of jake heenan, sean o'brien and especially o'halloran who is fit even though he hobbled off against toulouse arent on the squad..but look connacht players not being picked is a good thing for our pro12 ambitions this season..would love to see ireland playing a free flowing brand of rugby similar to connacht. joe's methods are effective and he has great game plans but it can be boring rugby to watch..however i realise he has made ireland into a really difficult team to beat but as we seen against the argies in the wc that will only get you so far.

 

[Groundhog]

Connacht are a nice team to watch, but guys like Healy and Adeolokun would likely be nullified by top defences and outright targeted as defensive weaknesses. They seriously need to work on that aspect this year to put their hands up. That doesn't apply to O'Halloran though, he's a really well rounded specialist fullback and I would have brought him. Heenan is a top class player and we'd all be shouting for his inclusion were it not for the fact we're uneasy with Project players wearing green. Young O'Brien is one for the future, but he's 21, and inexperienced in an area we have a wealth of quality players right now.
Big props to the big prop John Ryan. If you'd suggested him for international selection last year you would have been ridiculed. He's kept his head down and learned his trade quietly and is developing into a serious weapon, which is rare of a tighthead. Hopefully Sweetnam can put his hand up for selection too. Not the finished article, but an absolute freak in the air with great footballing ability and all the physical attributes to be a top wing.
Holland's selection is odd despite the fact he's probably been our best player this year. He's a bit like James Coughlan. Unbelievable servant to the club, who never got plaudits during his best years physically but has developed into an incredibly solid player who holds down the fort in a big way during international periods and is a great leader.
Can we please play Payne at 15. Better options have appeared and he's one of the top 15s around right now.

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't know if anyone heard Easterbuy on this evening but he was talking about the depth in which Schmidt and coaches go in to for even picking a squad. He didn't give detail but said statistics showed for basic roles Tracy, Ryan, Billy and VDF were all starters by a bit by this on paper. His next words were "obviously we don't pick just by stats but it shows the competitiveness of this squad".
VDF been name checked was interesting I thought as he's the only real 7.

Just on that Billy Holland averaging 17.2 completed tackles a game this season. That is impressive to be fair

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Look at their defensive record. Was O'Haloran not injured against Toulouse?

They conceded less points than Munster last season. Yet Munster have 8 players in the squad, Connacht have 3. If their players being overlooked helps Connacht do the double (surely not!) then that would be amusing, but as an outsider I find it unusual and I'll certainly be more relaxed cheering on Italy and Scotland if they face Ireland with less of the Connacht lads come the next 6N.

 

[westernforce]

Connacht are a nice team to watch, but guys like Healy and Adeolokun would likely be nullified by top defences and outright targeted as defensive weaknesses. They seriously need to work on that aspect this year to put their hands up. That doesn't apply to O'Halloran though, he's a really well rounded specialist fullback and I would have brought him. Heenan is a top class player and we'd all be shouting for his inclusion were it not for the fact we're uneasy with Project players wearing green. Young O'Brien is one for the future, but he's 21, and inexperienced in an area we have a wealth of quality players right now.
Big props to the big prop John Ryan. If you'd suggested him for international selection last year you would have been ridiculed. He's kept his head down and learned his trade quietly and is developing into a serious weapon, which is rare of a tighthead. Hopefully Sweetnam can put his hand up for selection too. Not the finished article, but an absolute freak in the air with great footballing ability and all the physical attributes to be a top wing.
Holland's selection is odd despite the fact he's probably been our best player this year. He's a bit like James Coughlan. Unbelievable servant to the club, who never got plaudits during his best years physically but has developed into an incredibly solid player who holds down the fort in a big way during international periods and is a great leader.
Can we please play Payne at 15. Better options have appeared and he's one of the top 15s around right now.

lots of teams looked to target our back three last year..most memorably leinster in the final. look how that turned out .. our back three destroyed them

 

[munstermuffin]

They conceded less points than Munster last season. Yet Munster have 8 players in the squad, Connacht have 3. If their players being overlooked helps Connacht do the double (surely not!) then that would be amusing, but as an outsider I find it unusual and I'll certainly be more relaxed cheering on Italy and Scotland if they face Ireland with less of the Connacht lads come the next 6N.

You do know last season is long time ago. Connacht have wtruggled overall this season before Europe. But again I'd ask what last season has to do and where teams finish is irrelevant as styles etc comes in.
Regards Munster out of the 8. 7 100% the whole country agree deserve there spots. And Billy Holland probably is in great form but lucky but either way won't make big games.
New caps I think all deserve the call ups. And yes TOH is unlucky (even though I'd argue their wingers were even more unlucky) but Schmidt can only pick a limit. I think Tommy O Donnell and Dave Kilcoyne are desperately unlucky too but again who was picked that isn't playing well ahead of them. I'm usually top of que to slate selections but there's argumebt for majority

 

[Groundhog]

They conceded less points than Munster last season. Yet Munster have 8 players in the squad, Connacht have 3. If their players being overlooked helps Connacht do the double (surely not!) then that would be amusing, but as an outsider I find it unusual and I'll certainly be more relaxed cheering on Italy and Scotland if they face Ireland with less of the Connacht lads come the next 6N.

And yet their defence has been diabolical this year and it shows. They've conceded 130 points in 6 games this year, which can't be put on Healy as he's injured, but a guy of his stature really needs perfect technique. Which Connacht players would you pick in addition to Healy and Adeolokun who's weaknesses are clear as day. I'd take O'Halloran and that's about it. They have time to improve their defence but it's not good enough right now. I watch these guys on a weekly basis. I really root for Adeolokun in particular as he went to a local school who produce very few players, but I would have genuine fears if he and Healy took the field against guys with the attacking ability of the AB's.
Plus for the record I don't think a single Munster selection can be disputed bar maybe Holland who is the form lock in the nation despite age and ceiling being against him.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

They conceded less points than Munster last season. Yet Munster have 8 players in the squad, Connacht have 3. If their players being overlooked helps Connacht do the double (surely not!) then that would be amusing, but as an outsider I find it unusual and I'll certainly be more relaxed cheering on Italy and Scotland if they face Ireland with less of the Connacht lads come the next 6N.

Munster's issue last year wasn't their defence, it was that they were always defending. I doubt the stats are available without ridiculous work but I'd say if you figured out points conceded per minute without the ball Connacht would come out worse.

As said earlier, they've been an open door this year.

 

[Peat]

Carberry's ability to hit his peak won't differ much depending on whether he spends the month playing for Leinster or soaking up the Ireland camp - if any - but Ireland's chances of getting a guy who can make an impact sooner rather than later go up a lot. Right decision I think. I'm all up for getting young talents in to learn and be ready.

Fair enough to Tracy if he's going great guns. Can't compare so won't but Herring is very unlucky.

On the Connacht thing - as a rule guys don't get into and stay in the Ireland (or any other international) set up based on one season. Its about putting together a consistent body of work so that coaches know what they're getting. Connacht had a big season last season but that was never going to sway much, rightly or wrongly. Its up to Connacht and its players to shine in big matches year in, year out.

Are there some hard done by Connacht players?

Buckley's unfortunate to play in a golden age for Irish looseheads. They've got a tighthead in. First choice hooker is a kiwi non?

Think you could make a case for Roux rather than Holland but in either case we're comparing one brand of barrel scraping to another*

Likewise for Adeolokun and O'Halloran vs Gilroy. Still shocked that Gilroy's finally in an Irish squad after making his least impressive claim to be there for some time. Maybe Adeolokun had plenty to work on but Gilroy won't play against the All Blacks and neither would have either of the Westies if selected.

*In fairness, there's a big difference in that Holland is 31 and Roux is 25. Roux has a future, Holland maybe has a present if he's lucky. I still hold this is utterly inexplicable, no matter how many tackles he's made. He's not one for the future and isn't making a case for a first choice international selection.