Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd hate for the 6 Nations to be home and away.

 

[psychic duck]

I'd hate for the 6 Nations to be home and away.

I wish they would juggle about the home ties though.

France only ever win the Grand Slam in even years when they play France and Ireland at home.

In the second division the ENC, the teams you play home and away changes every 2 years. In the 6 Nations the fixtures are the same 2 year rotation ever ongoing.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Don't touch my six nations.... I'll take your legs.

 

[smartcooky]

I'd hate for the 6 Nations to be home and away.

Do you think they would get full houses for all matches (or at least as many as they would get currently) if they did)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Do you think they would get full houses for all matches (or at least as many as they would get currently) if they did)

I think Twickenham, MilStad and Stade would, not sure about the others (Aviva probably would, Murrayfield possibly would, Olimpico probably wouldn't - Scotland and Italy don't sell out every game as it is).

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

No chance of Connacht being culled. The main provinces will just have to get rid of their foreign players, especially the expensive ones. The provinces would still be competitive and you'd have more Irish players getting games for Schmidt to choose.

IRFU to disband Professional Rugby in Connaught to save money
Protest March to Dublin Full Steam Ahead
Supporters of Connacht rugby march against IRFU

The IRFU tried to get rid of pro rugby in Connacht a decade ago. If they're stuck for finances, you can be sure downgrading or culling them will be on the agenda again.'

There was a rather pointed comment by the presenter on Game On 2fm this evening. The discussion was with Brendan Fanning of the Sunday Independent. PRL's Mark McClafferty, so frequent in his press releases, was invited to take part yet he has so far refused to go on air despite repeated requests from the station. If he's trying to sell his product to the Irish, Welsh and Scottish rugby public, why not air his views in a live interview?

 

[smartcooky]

I think Twickenham, MilStad and Stade would, not sure about the others (Aviva probably would, Murrayfield possibly would, Olimpico probably wouldn't - Scotland and Italy don't sell out every game as it is).

It sounds like you are saying there would be public demand for the extra matches, which in itself would be a good enough reason to go ahead, especially of the money was good enough to replace that lost with no ERC next year!

 

[St George]

The question is... what are you smoking?

How is a competition that was agreed and sanction by the RFU and WRU the same as a proposed competition which will receive at most, the sanction of a single union (the RFU)?


As I pointed out earlier - the unions have simple avenues to generate way more cash than any McCafferty wet dream.

I don't smoke, i'll leave that to you.

The point i'm making, if you take time to digest my post, is that there is nothing to stop the PRL and Top14 from forming their own comp. They are not saying it is a replacement for the HC as they are unsure of the involvement of any other nations teams. Both leagues have announced their withdrawal from the HC 2 years ago, and the FFR has not shown any intent to force the clubs to play. Unless there is a compromise by all parties to continue with an ERC governed comp, then the PRL & Top14 will not be involved. They have made that quite clear and any challenge to that, if their stance is illegal, would of raised it's head by now.
The question is, can the PRL & Top14 form a breakaway eurocomp on their own, and without the backing of the unions and IRB..the answer is probably not.
But as i reiterate, there is nothing to stop them forming an Anglo-French cup to fill the gap left by non participation in the HC. The FFR would be crazy to block that, with the huge finances it would bring, as it would create a massive blackhole in it's own finances.

 

[St George]

As for some posters advocating changes to the 6N format. I'm assuming that this would be due to some sort of expulsion of France & England due to some sort of situation that everyone is just speculating and guessing at.

And i'm on Wacky-Baccy eh?

IMO as it stands, and if everyone sticks to what they have said, then the HC will continue without the PRL & Top14.
The PRL & Top14 will fill the void with their own domestic cup and again, IMO, their Unions will have no option but to sanction it.

This inturn will have no effect on the 6N at all, as it's a completely separate arrangement.

 

[smartcooky]

As for some posters advocating changes to the 6N format. I'm assuming that this would be due to some sort of expulsion of France & England due to some sort of situation that everyone is just speculating and guessing at.

And i'm on Wacky-Baccy eh?

If that is what you think you have read, then you ARE on the wacky baccy

IMO as it stands, and if everyone sticks to what they have said, then the HC will continue without the PRL & Top14.
The PRL & Top14 will fill the void with their own domestic cup and again, IMO, their Unions will have no option but to sanction it.

Not quite.

No sanction from the National Unions mean that the so-called Anglo-French competition is a dead duck. My limited understanding of French Law from the several French people I know is that FFR that can expressly forbid any Top 14 teams from taking part (and it looks very much as though that is what they are doing). That stand can be backed up with an " injonction de la Cour" a sort of French Court Order, defiance of which can lead to enormous fines and even possibly jail time for the boards of any clubs that flout the order.

While the RFU doesn't have the clout that the FFR have, without the French, the Anglo has no partners andf PRL are on their own, out in the cold.


Also, all this talk of the HC being dead is rubbish. Anyone who thinks that has rocks in their head. They are forgetting that the SKY TV deal is already in place (and Canal in France I think) and the money is already there until 2016. Teams from the Pro-D2 and from the RFU Championship could be invited.

OK, the standard won't be as good, but I think SKY TV would rather have something to broadcast than nothing.

 

[St George]

I think the comments are quite clear with regard the 6N when people, you included, start to advocate a home & away format for the Celtic Unions. Seeing as i doubt the RFU & FFR would unilaterally pull out of the 6N, then i am only assuming that this suggestion is made with some sort of expulsion of the English & French for some speculated reasoning that has not been established as yet.

I have not said the HC is dead in my last posts. In fact i have said that as it stands, and if certain people stick to what they have said, it can continue without the PRL & Top14. Good luck with that one., and in my honest opinion (just like the BT deal) any new format will have a significant effect on the monies Sky have offered if it doesn't include all the current contestants.

As for Union sanctions. As i reiterate, as it stands the FR have said they will not back a Euro comp outside of the ERC control. But the FFR has not challenged legality of the Top14 leaving the HC to-date, even though it has had two years to do so. My assumption is that perhaps they can't, TBH, i dont know. I just dont think waiting till the 11th hour is the way they would play it if they had a genuine legal case which forces the Top14 to play in the HC.

That said, this leaves the FFR with a huge financial hole in it's coffers, or they can sanction the Anglo-French cup to fill the void. The FFR would be quids in. They would get the revised BT deal split in two for the Anglo-French cup plus any pittance that their 2nd tier clubs would get from the revised Sky backed HC.

Goes back to what Rats said...speculation and just plain guesswork.
Hope those eggs aren't boiled.

 

[Peat]

I coulda swore I saw on another forum that Thornley was talking about the IRFU being ready to place Connacht in the firing line again. It would be a hugely short term move, and probably a stupid one, given all the work done out there, but it sounds believable.

I think there would be crowd demand for the an extended Six Nations just about. Have to say, I'm not sure I'd be wildly up for it myself, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. An alternative, and a cooler one imo, would be to open it up to the stronger second tier nations - Georgia, Spain... maybe the US and Canada as well. Do that round robin, you lift standards all round, you certainly open up some hella nice TV revenues... and such a competition would certainly the IRB to approve the new longer international window. I mean, they probably would anyway, but that definitely would. Travel would be a *****, but there we go.

Would be interesting to see if the RFU/FFR went for this option. They might regard it as a fight too far with the clubs. But they would love the extra revenues. Difficult to say.

 

[Amiga500]

The point i'm making, if you take time to digest my post, is that there is nothing to stop the PRL and Top14 from forming their own comp. They are not saying it is a replacement for the HC as they are unsure of the involvement of any other nations teams.

IMO as it stands, and if everyone sticks to what they have said, then the HC will continue without the PRL & Top14.
The PRL & Top14 will fill the void with their own domestic cup and again, IMO, their Unions will have no option but to sanction it.

Which is it?

An Anglo-French cup or two separate competitions, one for the PRL and one for the T14 and ne'er the twain shall meet?

 

[Amiga500]

I think the comments are quite clear with regard the 6N when people, you included, start to advocate a home & away format for the Celtic Unions. Seeing as i doubt the RFU & FFR would unilaterally pull out of the 6N, then i am only assuming that this suggestion is made with some sort of expulsion of the English & French for some speculated reasoning that has not been established as yet.

Why would the RFU or FFR pull out of the 6N?

The FFR can mandate the T14 calendar be re-arranged around the expanded 6N.


As for the RFU... what English player is not gonna do everything in their power to get released for international duty with RWC2015 coming up?

 

[St George]

Why would the RFU or FFR pull out of the 6N?

The FFR can mandate the T14 calendar be re-arranged around the expanded 6N.


As for the RFU... what English player is not gonna do everything in their power to get released for international duty with RWC2015 coming up?

Er....you are the one who brought up any suggestion of the 6N format being involved:

The unions would have absolutely no trouble making up for the money shortfall if the HEC does have to be parked up for a few years.

The solution - very simple - make the 6 nations home & away.

Good luck competing with that McCafferty

 

[Amiga500]

Er....you are the one who brought up any suggestion of the 6N format being involved:

The unions would have absolutely no trouble making up for the money shortfall if the HEC does have to be parked up for a few years.

The solution - very simple - make the 6 nations home & away.

Good luck competing with that McCafferty

Did you read my post?


My question was

Why would the RFU or FFR pull out of the 6N?


**it was not**

Who suggested changing the 6N format?

 

[St George]

If you can find in any of my posts where i say that they are pulling out of the 6N, then please post.

You're selective reading has missed where i suggest sarcastically, that that must be the only alternative to the Celtic Unions expelling them. It's quite clear in my post which you so kindly quoted.

My whole point is that the status quo change of the HC should have no bearing on the 6N unless there is some sort of toys out of prams scenario by the Celts.

 

[McTallshort]

God you lot still on about this!

No one knows whats going to happen yet, just at rats said earlier. Far too much speculation on these boards alot driven by a bit of anti english feeling.....

 

[Groundhog]

Far too much speculation yet you already claimed that the competitions were splitting for a certainty and told me to get over it. If we were Anti-English I would want the English teams to **** off but that's not the case. You've fuelled the thread too.
If the IRFU try to axe Connacht they will fail.

 

[McTallshort]

Far too much speculation yet you already claimed that the competitions were splitting for a certainty and told me to get over it. If we were Anti-English I would want the English teams to **** off but that's not the case. You've fuelled the thread too.
If the IRFU try to axe Connacht they will fail.

No I said the HEC was finished and since 2 of the 3 leagues have given notice then that would be correct. The speculation is whats going to happen next and no one on here could know that.