Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

[Amiga500]

Rather than insulting the posters who actually do make some accurate research before posting, you'd better look at the number yourself.

So now its not the 9 fixtures per club per season you would have inferred earlier?

But instead an average of... less than 6 when you include the clubs that do not qualify. :mellow:


I have the report here - http://admin.lnr.fr/IMG/pdf/Rapport_DNACG_2013.pdf I'll get a much better look through when I'm not in the office.


But I do quickly note the biggest contributor to T14 revenue is sponsorship... much of that sponsorship no doubt factors in European-wide exposure because of the nature of these matches, let alone the exposure of the matches themselves.


You keep massaging your numbers...

 

[erwanseb]

So now its not the 9 fixtures per club per season you would have inferred earlier?

But instead an average of... less than 6 when you include the clubs that do not qualify. :mellow:


I have the report here - http://admin.lnr.fr/IMG/pdf/Rapport_DNACG_2013.pdf I'll get a much better look through when I'm not in the office.


But I do quickly note the biggest contributor to T14 revenue is sponsorship... much of that sponsorship no doubt factors in European-wide exposure because of the nature of these matches, let alone the exposure of the matches themselves.


You keep massaging your numbers...

fixture=a sports event that takes place on a particular date, there are a total of 9 H cup fixtures, with between 12 games per fixture (pool) and one game (final).
No other competition takes place during these fixtures.
Pls check your dictionnary for the meaning of fixture, a fixture is not a game.
Top 14 26+3=29 fixtures
H cup 9 fixtures
Int 10-11 fixtures.

Do you seriously think the club owners would take this huge gamble if the H cup was profitable ? It is not, it adds a lot to expenses by inflating the squads but does not get much in return.
Are they all such fools to throw away the H cup revenues, the answer is not because there isn't much to throw away. They have two years to adjust budgets from serving notice till the end of 2013-2014 season, unfortunately squads will be trimmed by not renewing some contracts and revenue shortfall will be partially compensated by creating some new top 14 fixtures (top 16, 4 additional fixtures, 58 additional games ?) in the event that the replacement competition is stalled.
Do you think the SANZAR will happily invite the PI/Japan/Argentina in the super XV and happily give away 50% of the TV revenues in the name of rugby development and per country basis. This is called Hypocrisy.
The stubbornness of the ERC willing to maintain an unsustainable and unfair status-quo is bordering incompetence; this crisis is entirely their doing as they had more than one year to find a solution, they dug their own grave instead.
Had they modified revenue sharing a couple of years ago (3*33%) before the notice deadline (June 2012, two years before end of agreement 2014), then the PRL and LNR would have found it a lot more difficult to leave the competition as revenues would have been addictive, at current level they are not. Rabo pro 12 teams are addicted to the H cup.
I am not saying the ERC exit will be totally painless, it will cause some ripples even waves maybe but no tsunami. There is still a full season to adjust budgets, the 622 000 euros that a club would get from a TV deal represent one major player or two medium international ones.





</SPAN>

 

[Amiga500]

fixture=a sports event that takes place on a particular date, there are a total of 9 H cup fixtures, with between 12 games per fixture (pool) and one game (final).
No other competition takes place during these fixtures.

You've dug yourself into all sorts of trouble now trying to be a smart ass.

Leaving aside the obvious elephant in the room of the Amlin for a moment.

Playing no games means no travel expenses, no game collisions for the squad (increasing likelihood of being able to get away with a smaller squad over the season due to reduced injury exposure), possible rest days, increased general training days rather than match specific, possibility of giving players/trainers time off without adversely impacting game preparation etc etc etc

Thus, to even try and portray a weekend off as being of no benefit highlights a criminal lack of knowledge of the game, or yet another desperate attempt to build an argument on foundations of sand.

Do you seriously think the club owners would take this huge gamble if the H cup was profitable ?

Yes. It is what businessmen do - they try and maximise profit, often at long term cost.

Had they modified revenue sharing a couple of years ago (3*33%) before the notice deadline (June 2012, two years before end of agreement 2014), then the PRL and LNR would have found it a lot more difficult to leave the competition as revenues would have been addictive, at current level they are not.

You do realise that the PRL and LNR have got more per entrant for the past few years than Ireland? Or that nominally they get the same monies per entrant as Ireland and Wales? Not that I expect you to know that.

The division of monies is more or less fair on a per-country basis - which is how the HEC is setup. It is not aligned with leagues. Never has been.

 

[smartcooky]

fixture=a sports event that takes place on a particular date, there are a total of 9 H cup fixtures, with between 12 games per fixture (pool) and one game (final)

Pls check your dictionnary for the meaning of fixture, a fixture is not a game.

No, wait, YOU check your dictionary. A fixture IS a game. FACT! Each Pool round of the Heineken Cup has 12 fixtures, two fixtures in each pool.

In over 30 years of planning and creating fixture lists for sporting competitions of various codes, I have NEVER heard the term "fixture" used the way you are using it.

Every dictionary reference I can find online and on my library shelf says that a fixture is a match. NOT ONE of them says that it is a group of matches. Here are some of them...



http://www.ldoceonline.com/Sport-topic/fixture

fix‧ture [countable]

1 British English - a sports match that has been arranged for a particular time and place.
example usage: a list of this season's fixtures


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fixture

fixture [ˈfɪkstʃə]n
5. (Team Sports, other than specified) Chiefly Brit
a. a sports match or social occasion
b. the date of such an event


http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fixture

Fixture
2. British - a sporting event arranged to take place on a particular date:
example usage: the team’s last away fixture of the season


I think you are trying to do what you have a history of doing - bullsh|t your way through what you don't know!

 

[yarmolinsky]

Oh, dictionary battles! Lovely!


btw, does one really need a dictionary to realize the fixture IS a game? Thought it's kind of obvious...

 

[smartcooky]

Oh, dictionary battles! Lovely!


btw, does one really need a dictionary to realize the fixture IS a game? Thought it's kind of obvious...

to everyone but erwanseb it seems!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

RFU excommunicates players playing in breakway tournament. --> RPA starts a strike. --> PRL desists.

???

 

[Amiga500]

Postulating?


D'you think the RFU have the balls?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I know that Cockerill is not a PRL spokesman, but his comments have me very worried.

I would imagine that it's done the same for the RFU, if this were to go ahead then the RFU would be relying pretty much on good will from the clubs to release their players.
I know they do already, to a certain extent, but this would set a precedent of clubs being bigger than the RFU.
That paired with Lorenzetti (and the French ingeneral) talking about a world club championship have made me concerned about their stance towards the international game.

The further we go in this situation, the more I feel the RFU need to tighten their grip on our domestic game - even if it's detrimental short-term.
I have absolutely no idea how able they are to do that though.

 

[Packman]

RFU excommunicates players playing in breakway tournament. --> RPA starts a strike. --> PRL desists.

???

I'll go along with that hypothesis, although it won't get that far. All this is just a distraction from PRL selling BT TV rights they don't own. PRL are desperate to get away from that massive elephant that is in the room.

Nothing has changed from the PRO12's Unions and clubs joint public statement. You've had Northampton's Allan Robson's staement that just smacks of denial and which has not been publically backed up by a single celtic club; and today we have Richard Cockerill rather riskily speaking on behalf of all England rugby Stars saying that they won't mind missing out on their country's own rugby world cup because they are totally loyal to their clubs and will gladly give up their england shirts... HAHAHAHAHA! MY GOD! Oh man, thanks for annoying the england players Ritchie. That's going to help your cause no end.

I'm slightly embarrised by what PRL are doing to English rugby's reputation. Sorry rest of the world, please don't think that every English rugby fan supports these greedy selfish Wreckers. Stand by your guns, you hold all the cards. You are in the right. PRL will eventually either come back to the fold cap in hand or their will destroy themselves and I doubt even they are that stupid.

 

[Packman]

View attachment 2481

"Oops! I sold TV rights that I didn't own."

 

[Amiga500]

Stand by your guns, you hold all the cards. You are in the right. PRL will eventually either come back to the fold cap in hand or their will destroy themselves and I doubt even they are that stupid.

Even if that were the case (and right now, who can be certain) - its only a matter of time before the weasels try it again.

Better if the unions dealt with it properly now (if they can) - otherwise it will just keep coming back.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Just another round of baffoonery from Cockerhill. While club rugby is growing you'd have to be a fool to think it has anywhere near the same allure as the international game, especially in England. Look at the hype that comes when they're on for a Grand Slam or how huge their victories over Australia in 2010 or New Zealand in 2012 were. England can pack out Twickenham without effort. It takes four premiership clubs offering insanely good deals on tickets to come close to doing the same. If he genuinely thinks the domestic game can go toe to toe against the international game he's got another thing coming.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If he genuinely thinks the domestic game can go toe to toe against the international game he's got another thing coming.

I think the RFU need to act whilst this is the case though.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I think the RFU need to act whilst this is the case though.

Let's be realistic here, the club game is light years off the international game. When the top sides in European rugby are attracting 40,000+ every week we can talk, but until then the international game is very much top dog. Whatever happens in this situation isn't going to change that imo.

 

[Amiga500]

I think the RFU need to act whilst this is the case though.

And please don't make a half-assed go at it like the EPS crap.

If the clubs don't want to accept the ruling of their governing body. Cut them off. Completely. If it kills them - happy days, then go in pick up the pieces and rebuild with an umbrella structure ensuring control. If it doesn't, shove them firmly into the margins and make sure they stay there.

You simply cannot have the tail wagging the dog.

 

[ratsapprentice]

They aren't reliant on RFU money though afaik - it won't kill them. If it was that easy they would have done it by now.

 

[McTallshort]

I'll go along with that hypothesis, although it won't get that far. All this is just a distraction from PRL selling BT TV rights they don't own. PRL are desperate to get away from that massive elephant that is in the room.

Nothing has changed from the PRO12's Unions and clubs joint public statement. You've had Northampton's Allan Robson's staement that just smacks of denial and which has not been publically backed up by a single celtic club; and today we have Richard Cockerill rather riskily speaking on behalf of all England rugby Stars saying that they won't mind missing out on their country's own rugby world cup because they are totally loyal to their clubs and will gladly give up their england shirts... HAHAHAHAHA! MY GOD! Oh man, thanks for annoying the england players Ritchie. That's going to help your cause no end.

I'm slightly embarrised by what PRL are doing to English rugby's reputation. Sorry rest of the world, please don't think that every English rugby fan supports these greedy selfish Wreckers. Stand by your guns, you hold all the cards. You are in the right. PRL will eventually either come back to the fold cap in hand or their will destroy themselves and I doubt even they are that stupid.

Thats it! cannot stand this any longer. These greedy selfish wreckers are the only reason we have a professional league in England do you not get that?!?!?!?!? Where have you been for the last 20 years and dont say Welford rd because that would be rubbish, dont you dare apologize on my behalf. This lot can call our chairman/owners Weasels, greedy whatever they want but what they all fail to understand is these people put lots of their own money into clubs so we can enjoy one of the best professional leagues in the world.

If the over opinionated, over educated anti English brigade on here feel so aggrieved about what the English (and French) clubs are doing then they wont mind us leaving their ring fenced little competition and I am frankly surprised they are making such a fuss over it if they think we are such a group of undesirables.

And as for this theory that the English rugby players are going to somehow repel against their employers and demand to leave because of some dispute with the rfu then you are obviously either unemployed or in full time education but its doubtful you have a mortgage to pay.

 

[ratsapprentice]

And as for this theory that the English rugby players are going to somehow repel against their employers and demand to leave because of some dispute with the rfu then you are obviously either unemployed or in full time education but its doubtful you have a mortgage to pay.

They would be perfectly entitled to strike if the PRL rebelled against the RFU/IRB as the PRL would be directly preventing those players from taking part in IRB sanctioned games.

 

[McTallshort]

They would be perfectly entitled to strike if the PRL rebelled against the RFU/IRB as the PRL would be directly preventing those players from taking part in IRB sanctioned games.

Oh and you think that would happen? to my mind the only players rebellion in English rugby was against the RFU and they were all threatening not to play internationals. They are pro players and playing contracts are at a premium if the clubs dont employ them who will? The RFU? then who will they play for week in week out?