[EOYT] England vs New Zealand 16/11/13

[SelimNiai]

Twickenham, kick off 14:30 GMT​

 

[j-dawg]

Get your excuses in early Kiwi's, you never know

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Can England play for a full 80 mins... that will be the questions that the All Blacks will ask. If they can play well for 80mins I thin that All blacks to win or lose with in a score of 7.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think ABs will win quite comfortably. They have the added incentive from last year. I predict AB win by 10+

 

[j-dawg]

If Farrell can hit those kicks and build up an early lead like last year, the park will open up eventually. Had he got those kicks against Australia we could have seen a far better display.

 

[Prestwick]

If England are within New Zealand by ten points I'll be happy. If we're within five points even better.

Just need a big performance for 80 minutes and not just the first/last 40.

Farrell will really need his kicking boots on. 36 will take the distribution pressure off of him so he just needs to focus on pinning the kiwis back and rewarding the England pack with points because as a wise man once said: points mean prizes.

Finally I hear word Steve Borthwick will play on the wing this weekend! Exciting times.

 

[Sam Owen]

Can England play for a full 80 mins... that will be the questions that the All Blacks will ask. If they can play well for 80mins I thin that All blacks to win or lose with in a score of 7.

Teams are fairly evenly matched and in games like this you're absolutely right, you gotta play good and play positive for the full 80.

I think ABs will win quite comfortably. They have the added incentive from last year. I predict AB win by 10+

It's hard to bet against the ABs putting 10+ on, especially considering the added incentive of last years loss. Im not sure if the ABs will get away comfortably, Im going for England in this game. Apart from a few individuals from the ABs last week, ABs didnt look to good in their last game.

If Farrell can hit those kicks and build up an early lead like last year, the park will open up eventually. Had he got those kicks against Australia we could have seen a far better display.

Thats what they need a repeat of last year. England need to make the ABs chase a good defecit, they need to make the ABs climb a mountain. I havent seen the ABs have to comeback from a great defecit as of late but thats cos they so good its hard to get 10 points clear of them. England must score 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

New Zealand by 11-15. Carter won't let England off the hook with missed pens like last time!

Ofcourse I live in hope of a repeat of last year !

 

[Darwin]

I'm not going to make any predictions until I see the two lineups, but I do expect the ABs to be very fired up for this match.

I don't expect many changes in the ABs side. The is a good argument for starting Faumuina at TH, but I imagine they will stick with the experience of Franks. Hooker is anyones guess, but I suspect we will see Hore starting as he didn't play in the weekend (with Coles again on the bench). Woodcock will start at loosehead, and I suspect Crockett will be on the bench - I just hope he doesn't get on the field for too long as he is a liability at scrum time.

The rest of the forward pack picks itself, apart from the backup lock position. Luatua has been covering lock recently, but they may be tempted to go for more specialist cover now that Romano is fit (though he hasn't played any rugby for months).

The inside backs and midfield should remain the same, but the ABs will be wanting more from Carter with ball in hand. The only real selection issue in the backline is in the outside backs with Savea fit again. Though Jane looked sharp against Japan I suspect the ABs selectors will find it very difficult to drop Piutau, who has been a real weapon for them in recent weeks. Despite his inexperience I think we will see him starting on the right wing with Savea on the left. Though I still believe Dagg needs to improve a number of aspects of his game I think he is safe in the 15 jersey for now. However when Conrad Smith returns he may find himself struggling to keep the 15 jersey off Ben Smith. Piutau has the potential to be a world class 15 too, but needs to make a lot of improvements in his decision making before I would be comfortable seeing him in the 15 jersey at test level.

 

[Big Ewis]

It's hard to bet against the ABs putting 10+ on, especially considering the added incentive of last years loss. Im not sure if the ABs will get away comfortably, Im going for England in this game. Apart from a few individuals from the ABs last week, ABs didnt look to good in their last game.

because France defended valiantly, nothing to do with the actual form of the players. If England want to stay within grasp, they need to play killer defense, the whole way. They know this, they don't need some internet forum wine-drinking fool to tell them that, but then can they achieve it, and that's the whole question.

Obviously if they come close or even win this again, it'll be through defense and kicking penalties. Their attack is at a fairly low level, they make a bunch of mistakes, develop the wide passes too slowly and predictably and then are bound to make a handling mistake. They can't take NZ to a high scoring chasing game, like Australia did in Bledisloe 3 this year. If they beat NZ, it'll be with a tight, low score. They may get a try or two, but they're not reaching anywhere near 38 this time.

As for NZ:
discipline will be very important. Because France played a fantastic 80min, NZ were pressured to commit a bunch of fouls, many more than the French did. This time they need to make sure they have better control at the breakdown. And I think playing the French last weekend was a great experience for the All-Blacks, because they've now seen what NH Rugby can manage when played at a high level - they know they'll need to play faster if the rucks are being infiltrated, make a more conscious effort to get scores off counters before the field gets locked with white jerseys, and will want to stun England any time they can. Just as against us, it's only a matter of time until they finally break through and run one in, and they'll want to evade the defense and set the tempo from the start before the English defense sets in and becomes an impermeable reality that lingers in their collective imaginations.

Personally, I don't think England can contain them, I don't think they have the quality personnel to do that, and I think NZ will overtake them with their speed and smooth passing combinations. I do expect a strong performance from the men in white, they're at home, and will want to prove by all means last year wasn't a fluke.
But from what I understand, Tuilagi won't play this one, and I don't mean to reduce England's effort to one man, but he was responsible for about 2.5 of 3 tries.

 

[donmcdazzle]

We need to not concede anywhere near as many penalties as against France. If we give up territory and shots at goal then it could go like last year. I don't expect us to run in too many tries as I respect the England pack and their defense goes well, we just can't give up cheap points off scrum penalties.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'm seeing some VERY optimistic predictions for England here...

I forsee 15+ as likely, 20+ as possible. We have no game-changers on the field. If the AB's get ahead early I think they'll run away with it.

In a game like this, Farrell has his merits.. he's an absolute warrior of a player and will scrap for everything. His tackling can get us counter-rucking on the front foot.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I forsee 15+ as likely, 20+ as possible. We have no game-changers on the field. If the AB's get ahead early I think they'll run away with it.

I, unfortunately, agree with this.
If we put out the same 23, then the talent in our backs isn't enough to break the ABs defence. We'll play a slow and steady type of game, running through the motions, but our set pieces etc. will just be shut down by the ABs. It'd take some individual brilliance (i.e. Tuilagi last time round, or the type of spark Wade provides) to break through.
Our best bet would be to keep it tight, have Farrell kick his goals, and maybe get a forwards try if we're in the right position.
I'd like to think our defence is enough to keep it reasonable, but who knows - this is an insanely talented ABs side, end-of-season-fatigue or not.

 

[j-dawg]

because France defended valiantly, nothing to do with the actual form of the players. If England want to stay within grasp, they need to play killer defense, the whole way. They know this, they don't need some internet forum wine-drinking fool to tell them that, but then can they achieve it, and that's the whole question.

...said nobody, ever.




Jokes and banter aside, if Farrell nails those kicks early on - courtesy of a collective almighty forward effort - it can be done. There will be no respite (ala Australia) if Farrell does not get those shots. They get those shots then they get an absolute surge of confidence, and the all conquering all blacks start looking at the scoreboard with nervous eyes. I remember thinking 'wtf is going on here?' when Farrell hit the 5th penalty to take it to 15 - 0 last year. Whenever the subject came up I'd tell all and sundry how England were going to be stuffed by 20 points.

Truth be told, the all blacks havent done a demolition job on England since the 2008 tour, at least on the scoreboard. I hope this game lives up to the hype and doesn't see England roll over and take a beating.

 

[Big Ewis]

...said nobody, ever.

oh man....the cheap jokes we have to take....:yawn:

And btw, jokes and banter aside, I am saying it now, and we'll see if England can hold NZ to a decently low score pal, ball's in your court

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Time to spoil DC's 100th cap. Last year he missed two easy pens for him which would have given the ABs a 6 nil lead; instead England went into halftime 12-0 up. But I would say he was impeccable from the boot v France before he went off; so looks like he's been practising whilst he's been recovering from injury.

It goes without saying that the key to Saturday will be the breakdown battle. Last year, England's forwards really did a number on the All Blacks in this key area; the likes of Wood, Launchbury, Morgan, Cole and Tom Young in particular really smashed back McCaw and co at the contact area. I really liked the look of Launchbury in the last two games; he's like a second 6 and he is just going to get better and better; our very own Etzebeth and Retallick.

Otherwise I do fear for England's back line without Tuilagi. He really was the difference between the sides in the second half last year, with his hand in all three tries, Tomkins has not yet shown any real attacking threat yet and I'm not sure he will on Saturday. 36 will be too busy trying to contain Nonu; with Wade unlikely to make it, Ashton is likely to get yet another reprieve. At least Yarde will be back.

I expect Lancaster to go for:

1. Corbs
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola

9. Dickson
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tompkins
14. Ashton
15. Brown

16. Youngs
17. Marler
18. Wilson
19. Parling
20. Morgan
21. Youngs
22. Flood
23. Foden

The All Blacks I'm expecting:

1. Woodcock
2. Hore
3. Owen Franks
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Messam
7. McCaw
8. Read

9. A. Smith
10. Carter
11. Savea
12. Nonu
13. B. Smith
14. Piutau
15. Dagg

16. Coles
17. Crockett
18. Faumuina
19. Luatua
20. Cane
21. Kerr-Barlow
22. Cruden
23. Jane.

Without Tuilagi to make the difference, I'm expecting an All Blacks win, but only by 10 points. Hope I'm wrong and we bring it again on Saturday and that it is an epic match as last year.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

What's the biggest win NZ has ever had of England? I'm sensing we could be in for something special this weekend...

 

[Sam Owen]

because France defended valiantly, nothing to do with the actual form of the players. If England want to stay within grasp, they need to play killer defense, the whole way. They know this, they don't need some internet forum wine-drinking fool to tell them that, but then can they achieve it, and that's the whole question.

Where did the form of the players come from?..I know I didnt mention anything about the form of players. France played as good as expected. Never did I expect the ABs to win easy. I just felt they played ok and you can put most of that down to the French defence but theres a few other things that the ABs wouldnt be happy about themselves.

Dont worry Ewis, I dont think international Rugby players come on here to get tips on how to play Rugby. This forums for us to discuss, thats what forums are for. So you can carry on drinking your wine and say how you feel (within the...you know) on our forum

 

[donmcdazzle]

What's the biggest win NZ has ever had of England? I'm sensing we could be in for something special this weekend...

We won 64-22 in 1998. I cannot see that one being broken this time around. I'll take any win we can get.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

We won 64-22 in 1998. I cannot see that one being broken this time around. I'll take any win we can get.

Oh :lol:

Maybe not then. I'm thinking we might see a 25 point win. Something a bit extraordinary.