England World Cup Squad

[Lé Ddanno]

They are a little harsh. I don't think they all deserved such pitifully bad ratings.

I wouldn't upgrade many. George, Itoje, Ludlam, Ford, Lawrence and Marchant can maybe feel hard done by. I actually thought Lawes and JvP were overrated in relation to the other scores.

But any individual in a team performing so poorly as a collective has little to complain about. Lose as comprehensively as we have over 3 games (arguably 4 losses if you include scraping it against an equally poor Wales at HQ) and I guess anything at or above 5 can be viewed as a positive contribution, 5 is sort of the benchmark when viewed through that lens, if that makes sense?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Yeah I can see Ireland not making it, and Scotland and South Africa going through instead.

I'd be very surprised, Ireland have had Scotland's number for years and years. It's 8-2 to Ireland in the last decade.

 

[SG59_]

 

[Grizwald]

I've heard it said it doesn't matter which players are picked as it's the system that's the issue, there's definitely mileage in that. I will say that carrying a banned, out of form single 8 who's come back from injury and apparently isn't a good training so needs to paly to get fit should have been replaced.

It should have been evident that England don't have the personnel to execute 'the game plan' which most arm chair pundits could see from the outset. Main worry I have is what have they been doing for the last 2+ months in camp? Practising the wrong gameplan?

 

[TopTen2003]

Just revisiting the George Ford comment-

"We're making too many errors," added Ford. "What the reason for that is I can't be sure. Maybe it is a little bit of over-eagerness or a little bit of inaccuracy, or maybe it is a little bit of understanding.

"It's probably a little bit of all of it, to be honest. But one thing for sure is we can't keep doing it."

I keep coming back to that- not a happy camp if people are honest enough to speak out, I suspect. These for me are clear hints that not all is well.

 

[Saintjay]

I've heard it said it doesn't matter which players are picked as it's the system that's the issue, there's definitely mileage in that. I will say that carrying a banned, out of form single 8 who's come back from injury and apparently isn't a good training so needs to paly to get fit should have been replaced.

It should have been evident that England don't have the personnel to execute 'the game plan' which most arm chair pundits could see from the outset. Main worry I have is what have they been doing for the last 2+ months in camp? Practising the wrong gameplan?

What they should not be doing is basics like tackling and defence positioning. The school boy errors at defending a ruck was laughable. These are experienced pro's you shouldn't be saying "Here's a ruck, you stand here you are the guard".

I remember on the AB's All Or Nothing show Hansen telling players to make a box when receiving a pass. Dropped balls resulting in press ups. It seems like England need to be coached even simpler.

I think it was telling from George Ford that mistakes are happening in training. That's on the management who should be able to identify if some things not working. Clearly Borthwick had his team in mind for Argentina but with Watson, BIlly and Faz definitely out of that he's got a problem. I'm not sure he has the ability or time to switch it up. So Boreball it is.

Marcus Smith at 15 is definitely possible. Mad Eddie levels of insanity in my view. Which pretty much sums up every thing you'll hear on podcasts all week.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What they should not be doing is basics like tackling and defence positioning. The school boy errors at defending a ruck was laughable. These are experienced pro's you shouldn't be saying "Here's a ruck, you stand here you are the guard".

I remember on the AB's All Or Nothing show Hansen telling players to make a box when receiving a pass. Dropped balls resulting in press ups. It seems like England need to be coached even simpler.

I think it was telling from George Ford that mistakes are happening in training. That's on the management who should be able to identify if some things not working. Clearly Borthwick had his team in mind for Argentina but with Watson, BIlly and Faz definitely out of that he's got a problem. I'm not sure he has the ability or time to switch it up. So Boreball it is.

Marcus Smith at 15 is definitely possible. Mad Eddie levels of insanity in my view. Which pretty much sums up every thing you'll hear on podcasts all week.

I'll spare you from the essay I was about to launch into. Suffice to say I suspect the coaching team are pretty sure they know what's not working, less sure on why it's not and totally lacking the experience and stature to turn it round.

 

[BrokenWing]

Not sure how you think Billy and Faz were the solution to boreball either...

 

[Grizwald]

What they should not be doing is basics like tackling and defence positioning. The school boy errors at defending a ruck was laughable. These are experienced pro's you shouldn't be saying "Here's a ruck, you stand here you are the guard".

I remember on the AB's All Or Nothing show Hansen telling players to make a box when receiving a pass. Dropped balls resulting in press ups. It seems like England need to be coached even simpler.

I think it was telling from George Ford that mistakes are happening in training. That's on the management who should be able to identify if some things not working. Clearly Borthwick had his team in mind for Argentina but with Watson, BIlly and Faz definitely out of that he's got a problem. I'm not sure he has the ability or time to switch it up. So Boreball it is.

Marcus Smith at 15 is definitely possible. Mad Eddie levels of insanity in my view. Which pretty much sums up every thing you'll hear on podcasts all week.

Absolutely agree the lack of guards at the rucks against Fiji is unacceptable at this level, its basic level 7 stuff.

That's what I just don't get, if you're lacking in attacking flair and form in positions you can always revert to doing the basics well.

I've started to think it's all part of not showing too much of our hand (wishful thinking) as we can't be as bad as we have in the last 4 games.

 

[Saintjay]

Not sure how you think Billy and Faz were the solution to boreball either...

I don't but i can guarantee with Borthwick he'd have Billy V, Watson and Faz starting or close to starting against Argentina.

 

[SG59_]

I think the podcast pretty much nailed it. Short term issues can be fixed, but the big issues need to be addressed at the top with the RFU. Seems to me like other countries have been getting their act together while the RFU were just coasting on good times.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Billy V didn't travel with the squad today

 

[Booboobang]

I'll spare you from the essay I was about to launch into. Suffice to say I suspect the coaching team are pretty sure they know what's not working, less sure on why it's not and totally lacking the experience and stature to turn it round.

You see what I really dont get, is the basic stuff they are ******* up, doesnt happen at club level, we can debate the strength of the prem etc, but it is sure as hell above a level where catching a ball, guarding a ruck is an issue.

To me that suggests something is very wrong at a coaching level in the camp, its not even not improving players, its making them actively worse. Either they arent connecting with players, giving mixed messaged, etc I dont know, but actively making players worse is a really rouch sign.

 

[Booboobang]

I think the podcast pretty much nailed it. Short term issues can be fixed, but the big issues need to be addressed at the top with the RFU. Seems to me like other countries have been getting their act together while the RFU were just coasting on good times.

It isnt even a case of copying what others are doing. There are so many ways of running a union. Ireland and SA have a robust private school system that gets the most out of players an relativley less clubs so the best are funneled up, france have a model where clubs are incentivised to develop players and second division clubs have been made profitable making the ideal enviroment for player development. England has the worst of all worlds where schools arent funded properly and lower level clubs are left to rot with a closed of 'pyramid'.

English rugby and the RFU are selfish, our system would never vote for a system like france did in revenue sharing and colecitive bargaining for the greater good of the game and long term profit. It is all about making sure no one gets your cookie and you staying in place for as long as possible.

I personally dont see anything changing at the RFU, it is to much like world rugby in that regard, job for the boys, making sure nothing changes.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

It isnt even a case of copying what others are doing. There are so many ways of running a union. Ireland and SA have a robust private school system that gets the most out of players an relativley less clubs so the best are funneled up, france have a model where clubs are incentivised to develop players and second division clubs have been made profitable making the ideal enviroment for player development. England has the worst of all worlds where schools arent funded properly and lower level clubs are left to rot with a closed of 'pyramid'.

English rugby and the RFU are selfish, our system would never vote for a system like france did in revenue sharing and colecitive bargaining for the greater good of the game and long term profit. It is all about making sure no one gets your cookie and you staying in place for as long as possible.

I personally dont see anything changing at the RFU, it is to much like world rugby in that regard, job for the boys, making sure nothing changes.

French rugby made a decision to commit to club model and a lot of people called them short sighted. The RFU's insistence on allowing the club game to be run the way it has is the actual mistake.

 

[Booboobang]

French rugby made a decision to commit to club model and a lot of people called them short sighted. The RFU's insistence on allowing the club game to be run the way it has is the actual mistake.

I agree, as it stands, there are two models to run a nations rugby, strong private school system with government funding or collective bargaining and a true pyramid to improve quality of rugby.

The RFU is a shambles and got the worst of both worlds. It is so individualistic. French rugby is where it is because top flight clubs collectively bargained a good TV deal and then gave a chunk of the revenue to second division, meaning both divisions where strong and thus investors wanted to actualy get involved at all levels.

Englands domestic game? Even when there was promotion and relegation the gap in finances was so large it meant nothing. As long as prem clubs are happy on their laurels.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Billy V didn't travel with the squad today

How do you know?

Edit: ah the plane photo - that is odd

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Maybe he was at tackle School.

 

[Reiser99]

You see what I really dont get, is the basic stuff they are ******* up, doesnt happen at club level, we can debate the strength of the prem etc, but it is sure as hell above a level where catching a ball, guarding a ruck is an issue.

To me that suggests something is very wrong at a coaching level in the camp, its not even not improving players, its making them actively worse. Either they arent connecting with players, giving mixed messaged, etc I dont know, but actively making players worse is a really rouch sign.

My reason for the poor basic skills is a combination of the fact that international level is a bit quicker and needs to more exact than club level, but also the fact that the players aren't on the same wave length at all. They all seem to be out of position or doing something different to the others and when you have less time and are under more pressure it makes your basics look bad.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Maybe he was at tackle School.

Yeah that was my thinking, but a bit weird to have it now when the incident was a few weeks ago