England World Cup Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

What snippets?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Why on earth would Borthwick want to see Farrell at 12 again. Surely he's seen that it just doesn't work as well as a proper 12.

Edit: watching all the rfu videos online it looks like Chessum is mobile and looking good. Hopefully back for the warm up games.

We could have an Eddie jones dream of Martin and Chessum at lock and Itoje at 6

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why on earth would Borthwick want to see Farrell at 12 again. Surely he's seen that it just doesn't work as well as a proper 12.

Because Ford's back, and it's inevitable that he tries Ford/Farrell at least once (and probably has them down as his starters atm)

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Ford is man in a child's body. Shouldn't be playing international rugby let alone pushing our best 10 to 12 meaning we offer no running threat off 10 nor 12 and the defence just drift to Slade who then gets told he looks poor, when in reality he has no time or space and 3 defenders marking him.

 

[Saintjay]

In all fairness Farrell is about as much as a running threat as my nan god rest her.

Might as well ditch the likes of Mitchell and Smith if we are going with the man child criteria.

 

[ncurd]

Ford is man in a child's body. Shouldn't be playing international rugby let alone pushing our best 10 to 12 meaning we offer no running threat off 10 nor 12 and the defence just drift to Slade who then gets told he looks poor, when in reality he has no time or space and 3 defenders marking him.

God that statement feels at least 8 years ago....

 

[BPM]

Ford is man in a child's body. Shouldn't be playing international rugby let alone pushing our best 10 to 12 meaning we offer no running threat off 10 nor 12 and the defence just drift to Slade who then gets told he looks poor, when in reality he has no time or space and 3 defenders marking him.

Nah … don't agree with that at all. If anyone is guilty of giving their centres no time or space, it isn't Ford.

 

[BPM]

In other news, Ollie Lawrence is apparently making good progress and is expected to be available for 'the bulk' of the warm-ups: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66169453

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Nah … don't agree with that at all. If anyone is guilty of giving their centres no time or space, it isn't Ford.

Centre space is a theoretical concept cos he spiral bombs everything.

Well he doesn't (quite) but the scuttling running game that helped make his name has largely gone AWOL.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ford is man in a child's body. Shouldn't be playing international rugby let alone pushing our best 10 to 12 meaning we offer no running threat off 10 nor 12 and the defence just drift to Slade who then gets told he looks poor, when in reality he has no time or space and 3 defenders marking him.

Ford is bigger and heavier than Faf De Klerk.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ford is bigger and heavier than Faf De Klerk.

Same height and a stone heavier than Damian McKenzie

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Ford or smith could give their centres all the time and space in the world, but if that centre at 12 is Farrell it's a non threat unfortunately. Ford also doesn't have a running game or at least not one we have seen in the last 3-4 years. Combine the two and and it's 2 wasted positions. Farrell is the best 10 out the lot and therefore should start at 10. Manu and Lawrence have both shown they are better 12s than any other options we have in the squad right now.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Everyone will need a run out one way or another. But fundamentally he's going to have to choose his team and stick with it for better or worse - at this stage trying to engrain systems, style and cohesion is probably more important than individual selections.

Either way he's going to drive us a lottle big mad. Our Saints friend is heading that way already

 

[BPM]

Ford or smith could give their centres all the time and space in the world, but if that centre at 12 is Farrell it's a non threat unfortunately. Ford also doesn't have a running game or at least not one we have seen in the last 3-4 years. Combine the two and and it's 2 wasted positions. Farrell is the best 10 out the lot and therefore should start at 10. Manu and Lawrence have both shown they are better 12s than any other options we have in the squad right now.

I don't want Farrell at 12, but I also don't think he is 'the best 10 out of the lot'.

Like it or not, I'll be amazed if we don't see Ford and Farrell back together for at least some of the games.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I don't want Farrell at 12, but I also don't think he is 'the best 10 out of the lot'.

Like it or not, I'll be amazed if we don't see Ford and Farrell back together for at least some of the games.

Who would you say is the best 10 out of that lot then?

I've really not been impressed with Ford in the last few years although that may be tainted by last seasons return from injury time etc.

I'm not a Farrell fan but he's been fantastic for sarries this season and to me has been head and shoulders above the rest. He's shown a few different styles and an awareness to look for space for players that I think would fit a manu/ Lawrence style 12.

Something I read this morning is that the final England squad will get named 2 days after the first wales vs England game, which means the initial game will probably see any fringe players played.

So back to other thought. I'm expecting a more experimental side for the first game then first team afterwards for the other three games slightly rotating players.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Who would you say is the best 10 out of that lot then?

I've really not been impressed with Ford in the last few years although that may be tainted by last seasons return from injury time etc.

I'm not a Farrell fan but he's been fantastic for sarries this season and to me has been head and shoulders above the rest. He's shown a few different styles and an awareness to look for space for players that I think would fit a manu/ Lawrence style 12.

Agree on Ford.

Agree on Farrell, but the key word there is Sarries. That form hasn't really carried over to the international stage.

Smith is the difficult one. I had hoped that he would have nailed down the shirt but he hasn't totally convinced yet. But that's partly because we haven't played to his strengths either. 9 is also up for grabs and there's an obvious club partnership angle with Care…..which would mean Farrell to 12. which I don't want to see.

Farrell is captain so I'd be amazed if he didn't get the 10 shirt. Post RWC is a different kettle of fish.

 

[BPM]

Who would you say is the best 10 out of that lot then?

I've really not been impressed with Ford in the last few years although that may be tainted by last seasons return from injury time etc.

I'm not a Farrell fan but he's been fantastic for sarries this season and to me has been head and shoulders above the rest. He's shown a few different styles and an awareness to look for space for players that I think would fit a manu/ Lawrence style 12.

Something I read this morning is that the final England squad will get named 2 days after the first wales vs England game, which means the initial game will probably see any fringe players played.

So back to other thought. I'm expecting a more experimental side for the first game then first team afterwards for the other three games slightly rotating players.

In terms of skill set, I think Ford is far superior to Farrell (and Smith). Sure he's not going to make big tackles or win a turnover, but that isn't what I want from my 10.

Ford had no form to speak of last season, but that was almost entirely down to injury. Prior to that, he had a brilliant 2021/22 season where he was instrumental in Tigers' ***le win and a good 20/21 season too. I'm really not sure where your 'last few years' comment comes from.

I agree that Farrell has been 'head and shoulders above the rest' this season. However, I'd argue that this has been amplified by the fact that the others have had poor seasons.

Farrell often has periods of form where he's genuinely excellent for Saracens and looks like he's developed more of an attacking game, but I don't think he's ever replicated that with England. It's like he pulls on the England jersey and goes back to playing the pre-called, robotic moves and can't play on instinct. Some will say that's the coach's tactics, but if Farrell is the influential, on field leader, he's supposed to be, why isn't he able to play with some license to make his own decisions?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ford had no form to speak of last season, but that was almost entirely down to injury. Prior to that, he had a brilliant 2021/22 season where he was instrumental in Tigers' ***le win and a good 20/21 season too. I'm really not sure where your 'last few years' comment comes from.

Yeah he was massive for Tigers last season,
While it took him a while to get going for Sale (and I put that more down to us shifting RdP to 13) you could still see the class under the rust, and by the time he'd gotten in his groove he was excellent in the semi vs Tigers

 

[Geordie]

In terms of skill set, I think Ford is far superior to Farrell (and Smith). Sure he's not going to make big tackles or win a turnover, but that isn't what I want from my 10.

Ford had no form to speak of last season, but that was almost entirely down to injury. Prior to that, he had a brilliant 2021/22 season where he was instrumental in Tigers' ***le win and a good 20/21 season too. I'm really not sure where your 'last few years' comment comes from.

I agree that Farrell has been 'head and shoulders above the rest' this season. However, I'd argue that this has been amplified by the fact that the others have had poor seasons.

Farrell often has periods of form where he's genuinely excellent for Saracens and looks like he's developed more of an attacking game, but I don't think he's ever replicated that with England. It's like he pulls on the England jersey and goes back to playing the pre-called, robotic moves and can't play on instinct. Some will say that's the coach's tactics, but if Farrell is the influential, on field leader, he's supposed to be, why isn't he able to play with some license to make his own decisions?

It will be interesting to see how SB plays him if he asks him to be more creative...or play the same robotic method.

 

[BPM]

Part of my point is that no gameplan is so rigid that the 10 should ignore overlaps and good attacking opportunities simply because that's not what the next phase is supposed to look like.

Farrell is often described as a 'coach on the pitch' or 'the orchestrator of the attack' etc. I can see that with Saracens, but for England all he appears to do is follow a plan regardless of whether it's the right thing to do or not. If he really is running the show, he's doing a bad job of it.

Even if he is being asked to follow a 'robotic' game plan, he has the experience and ability to change it when opportunities come up, but he just doesn't … he's the captain FFS, it's not like he's going to be dropped for making good decisions on the fly.