England World Cup Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

Maybe he dropped him for not putting on enough mass in the last two weeks

 

[HamJan]

The Mercer ones seems bizarre to me. The stand out 8 in a very competitive french league. He is tall rangy 8 that calls the line out for his club. He carries well, is quick fit and has great ball handling.
If it's a personality issue that on borthwick, as good coaches can accommodate different personalities.

Who said it's a personality issue?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe he dropped him for not putting on enough mass in the last two weeks

Bring back the mass debates.
Oh I was young back then ned

 

[BPM]

I just can't make sense of it. Dombradt must have made one hell of an impression. Billy isn't it.

Maybe Borthwick is as sad as me and watches the victory over the All Blacks on repeat too much.

The thing is, Dombrandt is the man in possession of the shirt. Arguably Mercer needed to be better than him to take it. Perhaps he just wasn't an obvious upgrade and Borthwick decided to play it safe and go with a player he's worked with for longer.

As much as everyone seems to think Mercer would have no problem making an impact at test level, it's not a given that he would* and with no time or genuinely competitive games to prove it (warm ups are never the 'real thing'), I think he had to show he was an absolute 'must pick'.

As I said earlier, I think the curveball may actually be Tom Willis leapfrogging Dombrandt, but I think that also depends on Billy being fit.

*I'm confident he would have and I would have picked him BTW

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I said it earlier but I wouldn't have recalled Earl and kept Mercer,
I'm no big fan of Dombrandt (for England) but I wouldn't have made a Dombrandt vs Mercer call at this stage

Drop Earl, don't see the need for him there if Mercer is, we've already got Ludlam and Curry who can play 6/7/8, T.Willis who can play 6/8
Earl barely got a sniff in the 6N and with Curry and Lawes fully back now his chances are even slimmer
Mercer offers the carrying/linebreaking/big metres/big tries option Earl does but is bigger/stronger/a good lineout option

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I said it earlier but I wouldn't have recalled Earl and kept Mercer,
I'm no big fan of Dombrandt (for England) but I wouldn't have made a Dombrandt vs Mercer call at this stage

Drop Earl, don't see the need for him there if Mercer is, we've already got Ludlam and Curry who can play 6/7/8, T.Willis who can play 6/8
Earl barely got a sniff in the 6N and with Curry and Lawes fully back now his chances are even slimmer
Mercer offers the carrying/linebreaking/big metres/big tries option Earl does but is bigger/stronger/a good lineout option

I like Earl but yeah, that's entirely fair. He's never going to get in ahead of the likes of Curry, Underhill, Willis, Ludlam, etc.
Mercer could have been a starter.

 

[BPM]

Yeah. I totally agree too.

FWIW, I don't think it was Dombrandt vs. Mercer. I think it was probably more Mercer vs. Tom Willis. He was never going to take two 8s with 1 cap (as a sub) between them.

Also worth considering that both Pearson and Martin have a genuine chance of making the squad. Borthwick probably wants to limit the amount of inexperienced players he's taking in the pack and perhaps that's counted against Mercer?

 

[Scotty]

Always thought(when at wasps) TWillis deserved a shot(Curry Willis Willis actually seems pretty damn balanced). However Mercer has proved time and time again he deserves a shot and i really wanted to see what he can do, he had what 1 cap and wasnt seen again?.

Has there been any official word on Willis over Mercer?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not sure how many back rowers we'll take, but it's Ludlam I'm struggling to see a place for. Good, solid, versatile but not a starter, or even a second choice, in any position and not really an X factor bench option who might just produce a piece of magic.

At 7 he'd be behind Curry, J Willis and Underhill, all of whom can play 6 too as can Lawes with Itoje and possibly Martin also able to cover. We'll presumably take 2 specialist 8s who'd be picked ahead of him there. If you're looking for the upping the pace off the bench option that could be a Pearson v Earl face off - both 7s with Earl able to slip in to 8, where Curry could also cover in an emergency.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Anyone remember the days when our peak back row options were Croft, Wood, Robshaw, Haskell and Morgan? Ah good times...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Anyone remember the days when our peak back row options were Croft, Wood, Robshaw, Haskell and Morgan? Ah good times...

History will not look kindly on the Dave Seymour deniers

 

[BPM]

Not sure how many back rowers we'll take, but it's Ludlam I'm struggling to see a place for. Good, solid, versatile but not a starter, or even a second choice, in any position and not really an X factor bench option who might just produce a piece of magic.

At 7 he'd be behind Curry, J Willis and Underhill, all of whom can play 6 too as can Lawes with Itoje and possibly Martin also able to cover. We'll presumably take 2 specialist 8s who'd be picked ahead of him there. If you're looking for the upping the pace off the bench option that could be a Pearson v Earl face off - both 7s with Earl able to slip in to 8, where Curry could also cover in an emergency.

In theory, yes. Earl would offer a different option from the bench and Pearson is a very plausible bolter.

However, Ludlam is reliably good or very good when he plays for England. Earl and Pearson don't have that body of work to strengthen their cause.

Earl has had chances to make an impact and so far, hasn't done so. That's not totally down to him, but when your most likely role is to bring something different as a sub, being anonymous isn't exactly staking a claim. Pearson is completely untried so ironically, unless he 'does a Ludlam' and forces his way into the squad in the warm-ups, he's a bit of an outside shot.

 

[LIONSxv]

Disagree on the last one

It very much depends on what conflict

Who said it's a personality issue?

I think you missed the Word "IF"

Logic would also suggest it is a personality issue. Given that we talking about statistically the best 8 in Europe at present

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ludlam would be my 2nd choice 6 after Lawes. It's all well and good talking about who has higher ceilings and where players could end up, but IMO what matters most is what those players actually do in an England shirt, and Ludlam was our best forward in the 6N. He's earned his spot, even if he isn't particularly flashy.

 

[BPM]

Exactly. Which is another reason why Mercer being 'statistically the best 8' doesn't count for much.

 

[Saintjay]

Exactly. Which is another reason why Mercer being 'statistically the best 8' doesn't count for much.

The difference is BIlly V and Dombrandt have been poor for England. Clearly poor form for England doesn't count for much either.

 

[will311293]

I think Curry, Wills, Willis would be an extremely effective back row, especially if you went for a Lawes/Itoje second row pairing. Suddenly with Genge, George, Sinks you would say 7 nearly all 8 of the forwards carry well which is an unusual thing for us to have.

Does seem that T Willis has jumped Mercer and wouldn't surprise me if Dombrandt was also hopped. Didn't Leicester want T Wilis when Wasps collapsed? Don't know if that was influenced by Borthwick/Walters etc.

 

[stus768]

I think Curry, Wills, Willis would be an extremely effective back row, especially if you went for a Lawes/Itoje second row pairing. Suddenly with Genge, George, Sinks you would say 7 nearly all 8 of the forwards carry well which is an unusual thing for us to have.

Does seem that T Willis has jumped Mercer and wouldn't surprise me if Dombrandt was also hopped. Didn't Leicester want T Wilis when Wasps collapsed? Don't know if that was influenced by Borthwick/Walters etc.

Are George or Sinckler still decent carriers?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ludlam would be my 2nd choice 6 after Lawes. It's all well and good talking about who has higher ceilings and where players could end up, but IMO what matters most is what those players actually do in an England shirt, and Ludlam was our best forward in the 6N. He's earned his spot, even if he isn't particularly flashy.

You can't really use the 6N to hang an argument on though. He may have gone OK, but T Curry and Underhill didn't feature at all while Lawes racked up something like 12 minutes. All those 3 have credit in the international bank and if they are fit and firing they get picked ahead of Ludlam. But if they're they're not at full throttle, well that's a different question.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think Curry, Wills, Willis would be an extremely effective back row, especially if you went for a Lawes/Itoje second row pairing. Suddenly with Genge, George, Sinks you would say 7 nearly all 8 of the forwards carry well which is an unusual thing for us to have.

Does seem that T Willis has jumped Mercer and wouldn't surprise me if Dombrandt was also hopped. Didn't Leicester want T Wilis when Wasps collapsed? Don't know if that was influenced by Borthwick/Walters etc.

Jack Willis