England World Cup Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

Farrell confirmed as captain, Genge and Lawes vice-captains,

So I guess that answers any questions over whether Lawes was fit enough/in good enough form to go

 

[Reiser99]

Any hope Borthwick would do something different is long gone. He's going to play safe and if it all goes wrong he'll blame it on Eddie and little time.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What did people expect dude has had 2 years head coach experience.

Considering he was with Eddie for most of his coaching career how can he be expected to learn his own coaching style in a short amount of time

 

[BPM]

Not convinced by the whole we are not seeing what Borthwick sees in training arguement. Freeman, Mercer, Mitchell carving it up in the prem but not fitting in in training. Billy V, Dombrandt, Youngs prone to being slow and a tad lazy in ganes but carving it up in training. If your form in matches doesn't give you credit why even bother.

I know Borthwick has plans, sees more than us. Yet most of us here wanted EJ to pick on form not credit in the bank. Yet here we are again.

OK but form from last season isn't actually that relevant when you consider the tournament kicks off a full 3 months after the season ended.

Last season's form gets you into the camp. Form in the camp gets you in to the squad.

As I've said, I'd have made some different choices, but I don't actually think we need a massive change in personnel. IMO, the real work is on getting the team's performance level to where it should be.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What did people expect dude has had 2 years head coach experience.

Considering he was with Eddie for most of his coaching career how can he be expected to learn his own coaching style in a short amount of time

Just because it's inevitable doesn't mean it's not disappointing

tbf the Mercer thing came completely out of the blue - Farrell captain, boring gameplan, play it safe etc. was always on the cards, but I didn't see any version of reality where Mercer didn't at least play in some of the Warmups

Calling up Earl and dropping Mercer doesn't make sense to me (I know they're different positions but they fulfil similar roles in terms of carrying, and Earl barely got a look in during the 6N)

 

[Which Tyler]

For me, trust in a head coach is something that's earned, not granted.

I absolutely see the point that none of us have seen what Zach is doing in training, whilst Borthwick has; but on the other hand, he really hasn't earned any form of IBWT to overule our existing opinions.

If we were talking about a player I hadn't seen much of to have an actual opinion of my own; or a position that's hotly contested with little separating the contenders, then fair enough, we trust the guy who's seeing them in training (even if we also have the right to hold reservations). Equally, if Borthwick were a HC with a large body of work behind him, and has previously shown good judgement, especialy showing good judgement where I disagreed with him at the time - then fair enough.
That's not the case here.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Personally I'd have liked mercer to be a bit bigger. He looks like he needs some time in South Africa to hit the weights and their special 'supplements'.

 

[Reiser99]

OK but form from last season isn't actually that relevant when you consider the tournament kicks off a full 3 months after the season ended.

Last season's form gets you into the camp. Form in the camp gets you in to the squad.

As I've said, I'd have made some different choices, but I don't actually think we need a massive change in personnel. IMO, the real work is on getting the team's performance level to where it should be.

Disagree slightly. Form in camps is something, but not everything. Form whilst playing is against competitive opposition and should count for more if you want an indication of how a player will perform against real opponents.

 

[Becca]

As if we weren't already in despair over the possibility of those shirts, we now get a quite underwhelming squad to get our heads around

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Disagree slightly. Form in camps is something, but not everything. Form whilst playing is against competitive opposition and should count for more if you want an indication of how a player will perform against real opponents.

Heard he jogs poorly in a tackle suit.

 

[BPM]

Disagree slightly. Form in camps is something, but not everything. Form whilst playing is against competitive opposition and should count for more if you want an indication of how a player will perform against real opponents.

Yes of course and normally I'd agree. However, the RWC is a bit of a unique case since there's such a large amount of time between the end of the season and the tournament. If it's a choice between a player ripping it up in training now vs. a player who was in good form a few months ago, I can definitely understand why a coach would pick the former.

 

[Geordie]

So we probably know these already

1 Genge
2 George with Theo on the bench
3 Sinkler
4 (Hill v Ribbans) Martin bench.
5 Itoje
6 Lawes
7 Curry
8 Dombrandt

9 JVP
10 Ford
11
12 Farrell
13
14
15 Steward

 

[Noonz]

Disappointed in some of the names dropped, happy about ones that were added, but this is just the next iteration of the training squad.

Official squad to be announced in August

 

[Grizwald]

Although Mercer is the headline name to be dropped I'm possibly more annoyed with Mitchell being dropped. JvP has buckled under pressure since starting then you've Young or Care. I really rate Care still and got hung out to dry by Eddie on the Aus tour.

Dombrandt flatters to deceive at international level. This could partly be attributed to to the way England are set up play and the players outside of him. Same goes for Smith too, England aren't going to play under Borthwick in a way that suits the Quins boys.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The thing is, we're judging it on what we saw last season. Borthwick is judging on what he's seeing right now.

Not quite, I've been on the Mercer bandwagon since seeing him at U20's and at Bath and have the posts to prove it (https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/england-eps-2017-18-edition.39863/page-37#post-883295). I have repeatedly seen this guy showing the same attitude over and over. I recall when he moved to France people were raising doubts about whether he could hack it or if he was big enough and I said just watch. He has gone out and yet again shown he can hack it so no, this isn't off 1 season but a consistent pattern I have seen from him for years that seems to have only kept improving.

Hell even in this thread we have the "is he big enough" comment. The guy has been the top 8 in the French league with the most breaks, most metres made, most defenders beaten with him holding both the record and then the 2nd best and people are still questioning this? Seriously?

"Can Zach Mercer handle the big boys" is getting up there with "Can Watson play 15?"

 

[Which Tyler]

I always think it says a lot when fans of a player's ex-club are still bigging up the player.

We Bath boys (for example) typically big up Mercer and Ford more than we do... anyone who still plays at Bath

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Disappointed in some of the names dropped, happy about ones that were added, but this is just the next iteration of the training squad.

Official squad to be announced in August

This is listed as the first official squad on the RFU announcement.

 

[TopTen2003]

We were always going to have a core of experience for this tournament- especially having played so well only 4 years ago- but if we're talking form then man there are some bizarre selections here.

I was hoping for a sprinkling of fresh talent in with some previously proven performers looking to show they still have it.

Interested to see how SB sets us up in the warm ups.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Interested to see how SB sets us up in the warm ups.

To fail.

 

[Noonz]

This is listed as the first official squad on the RFU announcement.

Ah, damn.

So SB can only whittle it down from this current group?