England World Cup Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

I hope Mercer rips it up it in the warm-ups and makes it a moot point.

Curry, Willis, Mercer

 

[Saintjay]

Makes sense a Saints fan would die seeing actual TH prop.
I mean Cole shouldn't be ahead of Stuart or Sinckler which he isn't but who else would you rather have?

Nothing against him as a Leicester player. From what i know he's been going well last season. I have similar feelings about Sinckler. Just 4 years on from the scrum being demolished in an RWC final and we still don't have anyone better coming through.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Nothing against him as a Leicester player. From what i know he's been going well last season. I have similar feelings about Sinckler. Just 4 years on from the scrum being demolished in an RWC final and we still don't have anyone better coming through.

I think Stuart and Heyes will both be very good international tightheads in time. Stuart just needs more experience and Heyes is only 24, which is still a baby in tighthead terms.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Stuart just needs more experience

If that were the case you'd have expected him to have shown more promise by now, surely?
24 caps in and he's still not near the required level

Not saying there's necessarily anyone better atm, and he's got a very good shot at being our 2nd choice tighthead in the RWC, but he doesn't strike me as someone to who's going to have a meteoric rise from where he's at atm

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Nothing against him as a Leicester player. From what i know he's been going well last season. I have similar feelings about Sinckler. Just 4 years on from the scrum being demolished in an RWC final and we still don't have anyone better coming through.

In fairness that final was literally nothing to do with Sinkler, defo can't be held accountable for it

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If that were the case you'd have expected him to have shown more promise by now, surely?
24 caps in and he's still not near the required level

Not saying there's necessarily anyone better atm, and he's got a very good shot at being our 2nd choice tighthead in the RWC, but he doesn't strike me as someone to who's going to have a meteoric rise from where he's at atm

I think he has shown promise. The Australia series was the only time he's had a run of starts and I really liked the look of him that tour.

Don't think he'll turn out to be the next Tadhg Furlong or anything but I think if he was given the reigns as our starting TH then he'd consistently put in good shifts for us.

 

[BPM]

I think he has shown promise. The Australia series was the only time he's had a run of starts and I really liked the look of him that tour.

Don't think he'll turn out to be the next Tadhg Furlong or anything but I think if he was given the reigns as our starting TH then he'd consistently put in good shifts for us.

100% agree. I'd prefer to start Stuart over Sinckler TBH.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd prefer to start Stuart over Sinckler TBH.

Jeeze,
I guess I need to watch Stuart more because IMO there is a very significant gulf between the two, even with Sinckler's Bristol slump

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Jeeze,
I guess I need to watch Stuart more because IMO there is a very significant gulf between the two, even with Sinckler's Bristol slump

Tbf it doesn't help that Stuart is seemingly injured 90% of the time. But yeah, I do like him. Carries very well (much better carrier than Sinckler in close quarters IMO), scrummages well, turns up in defence… I like him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

scrummages well

I just really can't get past this - swear we're talking about different players

 

[BPM]

And yet you like Rodd who is a lot worse than Stuart from a scrummaging POV?

Stuart's not an amazing scrummaging prop but he's nowhere near as bad as you're suggesting. I think he's better than Sinckler in that facet for starters.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And yet you like Rodd

Not really, Rodd's a poor scrummager who has flashes of good stuff, he's nowhere near international standard (yet? he's only 22, hopefully some more nous, and bulk/strength improves his scrummaging). It's his carrying/breakdown work that have made him a fan favourite at Sale.
I've said all season McIntyre should be ahead of him, luckily Sanderson came around to my way of thinking and our scrum was a real weapon for the latter part of the season

Maybe I'm focussing on Stuart's Autumn series too much, but those are his most recent caps
I want to be wrong about him, don't get me wrong - tighthead is a serious problem area for England, but I just don't see Stuart being an improvement on the Sinckler/Cole partnership we had in the 6N

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Both sale props in Schonert and McIntyre should prob be at least 3rd choice LH and TH

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Both sale props in Schonert and McIntyre should prob be at least 3rd choice LH and TH

Nah I like McIntyre but I'd have Genge, Marler, Obano and VRR ahead of him. Schonert I haven't really paid attention to tbh.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Schonert would easily be our best scrummaging tighthead, I doubt his body would make it through a RWC training camp let alone international test matches, though
He's held together with hopes, prayers, brown paper and vinegar

Love Big Mac, think he's definitely one of the better scrummagers we have available, but don't think he offers enough outside the set-piece to beat someone like VRR who is not significantly worse at the scrum, but is very very good in the loose

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Schonert would easily be our best scrummaging tighthead, I doubt his body would make it through a RWC training camp let alone international test matches, though
He's held together with hopes, prayers, brown paper and vinegar

Love Big Mac, think he's definitely one of the better scrummagers we have available, but don't think he offers enough outside the set-piece to beat someone like VRR who is not significantly worse at the scrum, but is very very good in the loose

I sure people will disagree but I rather a solid prop than Mako, Marler I think current form wise is on par with McIntyre and at least you know Mcintrye is fully committed to England if was the case.

I agree with VRR and Obano above him but if a Schonert is held together that badly what does it make VRR and Obano?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If that were the case you'd have expected him to have shown more promise by now, surely?
24 caps in and he's still not near the required level

Not saying there's necessarily anyone better atm, and he's got a very good shot at being our 2nd choice tighthead in the RWC, but he doesn't strike me as someone to who's going to have a meteoric rise from where he's at atm

Hampered by injuries and I'd guess in terms of actual minutes played he's more like the equivalent of 5 - 8 caps, which is nappies for a THP.

Not going to set the world on fire, but will be solid enough and I never object to big units in the front 5. He can do all the basics well enough and doesn't get the total heebie jeebies if he gets the ball in loose play.

Mako and Sinckler over time have shown the folly of not putting the fundamentals first. Weight's far from everything, but it helps and shove Launch in behind Stuart and you're suddenly scrummaging with 257 kg pushing on the TH side. Not quite Antonio / Willemse, but that kind of principle and energy sapping for opponents. Power up your front 5 and it gives licence to a more athletic back row along the Willis / Curry / Mercer mould.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Having a productive morning at work so decided to make MY own squad. I want to be able to select two starting XVs.

Genge, Obano, Marler
George, LCD, Blamire
Sinckler, Stuart
Itoje, Chessum, Martin, Ribbans
Underhill, Lawes
Curry, Willis, Pearson
Mercer, Dombrandt

JVP, Mitchell
Farrell, Smith
Kelly, Tuilagi
Lawrence, Slade
Watson, Murley, Freeman
Steward, Arundell, Malins

(Standby - Rodd, Walker, Cole, Launchbury, Ludlam, Youngs, Ford, Daly)

So, the make up of the squad not to dissimilar to 2019 plus an extra 2 players. Taking Marler to cover both sides (as EJ did in 2019). Question marks over a few who are carrying injuries but included for now. Not going to take 3 scrum-halves or Fly-halves as there is little point. Malins is going as the utilty back who can cover 10, Wing and FB (Player 35% at wing, 32% at FB, 21% at 10). Don't need a third expert there.

I felt bad leaving Ludlam out but want to get Lawes in and 4 proper locks. Bolter in Pearson as I think he can be next level to Ludlam.

Starting XI Vs Argentina

Genge
George
Sinckler
Chessum
Itoje
Willis
Curry
Mercer

JVP
Farrell
Murley
Kelly
Lawrence
Watson
Steward

(Marler, LCD, Stuart, Martin, Pearson, Mitchell, Smith, Malins)

Not taking 3 scrum halves??!! Did you not see what happened with England at the last world cup?

Having a productive morning at work so decided to make MY own squad. I want to be able to select two starting XVs.

Genge, Obano, Marler
George, LCD, Blamire
Sinckler, Stuart
Itoje, Chessum, Martin, Ribbans
Underhill, Lawes
Curry, Willis, Pearson
Mercer, Dombrandt

JVP, Mitchell
Farrell, Smith
Kelly, Tuilagi
Lawrence, Slade
Watson, Murley, Freeman
Steward, Arundell, Malins

(Standby - Rodd, Walker, Cole, Launchbury, Ludlam, Youngs, Ford, Daly)

So, the make up of the squad not to dissimilar to 2019 plus an extra 2 players. Taking Marler to cover both sides (as EJ did in 2019). Question marks over a few who are carrying injuries but included for now. Not going to take 3 scrum-halves or Fly-halves as there is little point. Malins is going as the utilty back who can cover 10, Wing and FB (Player 35% at wing, 32% at FB, 21% at 10). Don't need a third expert there.

I felt bad leaving Ludlam out but want to get Lawes in and 4 proper locks. Bolter in Pearson as I think he can be next level to Ludlam.

Starting XI Vs Argentina

Genge
George
Sinckler
Chessum
Itoje
Willis
Curry
Mercer

JVP
Farrell
Murley
Kelly
Lawrence
Watson
Steward

(Marler, LCD, Stuart, Martin, Pearson, Mitchell, Smith, Malins)

Not taking 3 scrum halves??!! Did you not see what happened with England at the last world cup? Heinz got injured so Ben Spencer had to fly out and then in the final Ben Youngs had a shocker but Jones couldn't bring Spencer on because he hadnt been integrated into the squad so Youngs played the whole game even though he was passing the ball into touch instead of to an England player!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I did think the same about 3 scrumhalves, but with it being in France a callup is like an hour on a plane - I could see them taking JvP and Mitchell and then bringing Youngs in if one of those gets injured cause he doesn't exactly need time to integrate,
Just keep him in the training squads until the team leave for France so he knows the calls etc

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I did think the same about 3 scrumhalves, but with it being in France a callup is like an hour on a plane - I could see them taking JvP and Mitchell and then bringing Youngs in if one of those gets injured cause he doesn't exactly need time to integrate,
Just keep him in the training squads until the team leave for France so he knows the calls etc

We could do that but like, why would we? A 33-man squad is plenty to take 3 9s and remove any of that risk. What happens if one of them went down in the warm up and we didn't have time to bring someone in? I'd imagine the format for most teams will along the lines of:

3 LPs
3 HKs
3 TPs
4 LKs
5 BRs
3 SHs
3 FHs
4 CEs
5 BTs

Don't think there's anywhere there that looks particularly thin on the ground, but even if there was, a scrum half definitely isn't who I'd be ditching to make room.