England World Cup Squad

[Saintjay]

A tiny part of me dies when i see Ben Youngs and Dan Cole on a team sheet.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looks like they updated the announcement:

Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby) and Jack Walker (Harlequins) re-join the squad for treatment having picked up knee and calf injuries respectively whilst training last week.

Knee injury for Lawrence is concerning, though not sure if he's had problems with that before - a quick google and it looks like his last two injuries were hamstring and calf, respectively


Edit:

Both players were hurt in England squad training last week and they are understood to each be facing a minimum of six weeks' rehabilitation.

Not great

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Some squad looking like?
Loosehead: Genge, Marler, Obano, VPR,
Hooker: Blamire, Dunn
Tighthead: Cole, Heyes, Sinckler, Stuart
Locks: Ewels, Martin, Ribbans
Blindside: Hill, Lawes,
Openside: Ludlam, Underhill, Pearson
Number 8: Dombrandt, Mercer
Scrum Half: Care, Mitchell, JVP, Youngs
Fly Half: F.Smith, M.Smith
Inside: Dingwall
Outside: Joesph, Marchant, Porter, Slade
Wing: Cokanasiga, Freeman, May, Murley, Watson
Full Back: Arundell, Steward,

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

No Kelly suggests too me 3 things
1. He wants a ball carrier at 12 so Lawrence and Manu with Slade and Marchant as his 13's?
2. He might feel that a player who only plays 12 is too much a luxury and Farrell can cover fine
3. He's a poopoo head.

Leaning on 2 and 3

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

A tiny part of me dies when i see Ben Youngs and Dan Cole on a team sheet.

Makes sense a Saints fan would die seeing actual TH prop.
I mean Cole shouldn't be ahead of Stuart or Sinckler which he isn't but who else would you rather have?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Just realised that this presumably means Ribbans is going to be available? That's good news.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wonder how big the next training squad will be, last time round we went into the warmups with 35 players and then trimmed to 31 for the RWC - this time round it's a 33man squad, so 37? 38? man training squad?

There's a number of guaranteed players to come available in the next squad (Mako, George, Itoje, Farrell, Malins, Curry, Ford, Manu) and a number of possibles (Isiekwe, Earl, Daly, Rodd, Hill, Quirke) and some outside chances (Dan, Lozowski, Warr, Roebuck)
That's a lot of change

No Kelly suggests too me 3 things
1. He wants a ball carrier at 12 so Lawrence and Manu with Slade and Marchant as his 13's?
2. He might feel that a player who only plays 12 is too much a luxury and Farrell can cover fine
3. He's a poopoo head.

Leaning on 2 and 3

Or.....Ford/Farrell

I mean Cole shouldn't be ahead of Stuart

Disagree, tbh - Stuart has always looked poor for England, his appearances in the autumn (despite somehow getting two tries) were a huge step down on an already struggling setpiece
Cole at least is strong in the league, which is more than could be said for Stuart

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wonder how big the next training squad will be, last time round we went into the warmups with 35 players and then trimmed to 31 for the RWC - this time round it's a 33man squad, so 37? 38? man training squad?

There's a number of guaranteed players to come available in the next squad (Mako, George, Itoje, Farrell, Malins, Curry, Ford, Manu) and a number of possibles (Isiekwe, Earl, Daly, Rodd, Hill, Quirke) and some outside chances (Dan, Lozowski, Warr, Roebuck)
That's a lot of change


Or.....Ford/Farrell


Disagree, tbh - Stuart has always looked poor for England, his appearances in the autumn (despite somehow getting two tries) were a huge step down on an already struggling setpiece
Cole at least is strong in the league, which is more than could be said for Stuart

Ford/Farrell would mean he is a poopoo head

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ok my guess at a RWC squad
1. Genge, Marler, Mako
2. George, LCD(?), Blamire, (If no LCD then Dunn)
3. Sinckler, Cole, Stuart,
4. Itoje, Isiekwe (Chessum if fit)
5. Martin, Ribbans
6. Lawes, Ludlam or Pearson
7. Curry, J.Willis
8. Mercer, T.Willis (Maybe Vunipola if fit)
9. Youngs, JVP or Mitchell
10. Farrell, Ford
11. Malins, Freeman
12. Tuilagi, Lawrence
13. Slade, Marchant or Daly (Honestly could see Porter making it some how also)
14. Watson, May
15. Steward, Arundell

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Ok my guess at a RWC squad
1. Genge, Marler, Mako
2. George, LCD(?), Blamire, (If no LCD then Dunn)
3. Sinckler, Cole, Stuart,
4. Itoje, Isiekwe (Chessum if fit)
5. Martin, Ribbans
6. Lawes, Ludlam or Pearson
7. Curry, J.Willis
8. Mercer, T.Willis (Maybe Vunipola if fit)
9. Youngs, JVP or Mitchell
10. Farrell, Ford
11. Malins, Freeman
12. Tuilagi, Lawrence
13. Slade, Marchant or Daly (Honestly could see Porter making it some how also)
14. Watson, May
15. Steward, Arundell

I think you're off in a few areas tbh.

Id be very surprised if he takes both Mercer and T Willis - Willis won't go imo, it would be a huge risk to have 2/3 8s not having really been part of that group.

Also confident he'll take all 3 of Faz, Ford and Smith tbh.

I do also think Underhill will go, but I'm not sure where he fits tbh.

Also unsure if both Malins and Daly make it in the same squad

 

[BPM]

Looks like they updated the announcement:


Knee injury for Lawrence is concerning, though not sure if he's had problems with that before - a quick google and it looks like his last two injuries were hamstring and calf, respectively


Edit:

Not great

Agreed. Although in a way it's better to pick up that kind of injury now with time to recover rather than closer to the tournament.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think you're off in a few areas tbh.

Id be very surprised if he takes both Mercer and T Willis - Willis won't go imo, it would be a huge risk to have 2/3 8s not having really been part of that group.

Also confident he'll take all 3 of Faz, Ford and Smith tbh.

I do also think Underhill will go, but I'm not sure where he fits tbh.

Also unsure if both Malins and Daly make it in the same squad

My thing is Ford and Smith do not cover any other position.
Farrell is most likely going to be starting 10 so I don't see him using 2 specialist 10's who offer zero support. It wouldn't IMO make sense. Not when it's in France and Smith or Ford could be called up at a moments notice if injury happens.

Yeh number 8 makes sense I guess depends how much this camp has been tactics and how much is it Walters getting up too speed in terms of checking conditioning etc.

Malins and Daly are both versatile and both offer kicking options. I would prefer Marchant over Daly though

 

[BPM]

I think you're off in a few areas tbh.

Id be very surprised if he takes both Mercer and T Willis - Willis won't go imo, it would be a huge risk to have 2/3 8s not having really been part of that group.

Also confident he'll take all 3 of Faz, Ford and Smith tbh.

I do also think Underhill will go, but I'm not sure where he fits tbh.

Also unsure if both Malins and Daly make it in the same squad

Agreed on all of the above.

Re. the 8s. I'm surprised everyone is writing off Dombrandt when the case for picking Mercer or Tom Willis is based solely on club form. I rate both and they're probably the two I'd want to prioritise post RWC but taking two test rookies as your two 8s would be incredibly risky IMO. I'd expect both to step up quickly, but there's no guarantee that they wouldn't have the same lukewarm introduction Dombrandt's had. 8 is a key position so I doubt Borthwick is going to be recklessly bold.

If Dombrandt loses out to Mercer, I think it's much more likely to be Billy Vunipola going than Willis.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I can see Vunipola starting honestly.
You look at the other injured players Borthwick has kept since the start of camp LCD and Chessum both are IMO nailed down if fit, makes me feel like he wants Billy.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Idk, if he was really keen on Billy then I think he'd have played him in the 6N. Not ruling him out but I don't think we can read too much into the fact that he's in camp doing rehab.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can see Billy starting too, after Borthwick bigging him up in the press, but it does make it confusing that he wasn't in the mix in the 6N, and was injured for the lions share of Rugby after that so not like he really proved himself after (he's been in good form the latter part of the season, don't get me wrong, but not like he tore it up in the final or anything)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Idk, if he was really keen on Billy then I think he'd have played him in the 6N. Not ruling him out but I don't think we can read too much into the fact that he's in camp doing rehab.

But if he wasn't keen why would he call him up for rehab instead of letting him have the full preseason?

Considering Kelly was viewed as his go to 12 coming into the 6N's before injury and he is no not even in the wider squad how much can we look at the 6N's squad?

 

[BPM]

I don't think Billy should be there, but when push comes to shove, I think it's highly unlikely we go with two inexperienced 8s and he's really the only tried and tested alternative.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

But if he wasn't keen why would he call him up for rehab instead of letting him have the full preseason?

Because he sees him as being in contention for the squad? I'm not saying Borthwick has no interest in him; I'm just saying we can't automatically assume that Billy is his 1st choice 8 just because he's doing rehab.

 

[BPM]

I hope Mercer rips it up it in the warm-ups and makes it a moot point.