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England World Cup Squad

Borthwick identified reconnecting his side with supporters, who had grown tired of Eddie Jones's approach, as one of his first major tasks
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It's almost as if he was TOLD this was one of his tasks as opposed to identifying it himself….
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
You can't please all of the people all of the time.

www.theguardian.com

RFU concerned by Borthwick’s siege mentality despite England success

Senior figures at the RFU are said to be worried supporters are feeling alienated by Borthwick’s methods despite England reaching the semi-finals
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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But it doesn't mean that his methods and what he did were the only way to reach where we are. You can't justify outcome solely on results.

There's a good argument to say that had borthwick gone for a really youthful side we'd have been destroyed like Australia but there is a little ground that Borthwick ignored in many ways.

I said the RFU would get involved when the ticket Sales/ shirt sales slumped because of how poor we are to watch. I'm just hoping that SB learned from the Fiji game and won't have us change tactics in the second half which caused us to nearly lose.

SB seems intent on this kicking thing even when it's not been working.
 
I've already said it. Do I support England? Yes. Do I enjoy watching England? No.

If the RFU were concerned about results and the disconnect with fans under Jones then they must surely be worried under Borthwick because things are just as bad if not worse.

Borthwick will look like a complete fool if S.A destroy England tomorrow because it will just confirm that England only got to a semi final as they avoided the top teams through an incrediblyeasy draw. His only hope to salvage any credibility is for England to either keep it very close or win.
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
What did they expect?????
He's literally doing what he did at Leicester
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Quite.

Feels like civil wars are breaking out all over the place in the RFU but this kind of noise can't help Borthwick and the players prepare for a huge match. We might be playing poor rugby and taken advantage of a soft draw but we're still in a RWC semi and everything should be focused on trying to help the team win that. The second we're out the gloves can come off.

Different for us fans, obviously!
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
Quite.

Feels like civil wars are breaking out all over the place in the RFU but this kind of noise can't help Borthwick and the players prepare for a huge match. We might be playing poor rugby and taken advantage of a soft draw but we're still in a RWC semi and everything should be focused on trying to help the team win that. The second we're out the gloves can come off.

Different for us fans, obviously!
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The amount of leaks is worrying
 
What would everyone have thought if SB had picked a young side and said before the World Cup that he was targeting beyond 2023?

Using it as an extended training camp with some pretty tough opposition, then using the Six Nations as a yardstick for improvement.

There was fairly low expectations anyway so would it have made a difference, and a reasonable chance we probably would have gotten as far as we have.

What as he actually proved in this World Cup as is?
 
I think the worst thing that can happen is if England fall to the springboks without firing a shot. If they can't get fired up for a semi final against the current champions then nothing will get them fired up.

If England lose but look like they are giving it absolutely everything then that will be salvageable but if they look like they don't care, then we need to see what the French did to turn it around. They took an apathetic old guard, stripped them out, bought in eager youth and turned it around.
 
BrokenWing said:
What would everyone have thought if SB had picked a young side and said before the World Cup that he was targeting beyond 2023?

Using it as an extended training camp with some pretty tough opposition, then using the Six Nations as a yardstick for improvement.

There was fairly low expectations anyway so would it have made a difference, and a reasonable chance we probably would have gotten as far as we have.

What as he actually proved in this World Cup as is?
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I think if he'd have done that from the start of the 6N he'd probably have got broad backing. But I think he was limited in the new players he could have brought in?

But the big fly in the ointment was always the soft RWC draw where a SF was more likely than not. You don't throw that away lightly - he'd have got pelters if a team of kids had gone down to Fiji or a weak Aus in the QF.

And I suppose if you look at tomorrow's squad Earl has really come through on Borthwick's watch, so too Mitchell (by accident), while Martin, Chessum and Dan are all pretty young and beyond that he's looked at a new role for Smith. The midfield and wings need some fresh blood and Lawrence and Arundell who are in this squad will be part of that (disappointed we haven't seen a bit more of both). So the guard's starting to change and there will be several retirements over the next year or so to hasten that too.

Whether the Borthwick's the right man to harness the emerging talent is another question.
 
Scotty said:
Whats there main points in this? I really havnt got time to read it today. But seems really bad timing to bring this out.
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probably so they can fire him despite making a semi-final or even a final without the public freaking out. Even though the public would be broadly okay with it.
 
die_mole said:
probably so they can fire him despite making a semi-final or even a final without the public freaking out. Even though the public would be broadly okay with it.
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I dont care the result we shouldnt fire Borthwick, hope he has a clause after 2 years post WC but he needs a chancewithout WC pressure, ive seen improvement this WC and EJ proved we wouldnt have been better keeping him.
 
One England positive out of this world cup is that Ben Youngs looks to have finally been pensioned off. Not even making the bench on matchday is telling.
A great servant for English rugby, but far more poor games than good. Should have gone a couple of years ago.
 
Well I've backed SB most of the time. Not got things perfect but generally you can see what he had planned for this world Cup....and as a basis of starting a rebuild post WC.

Best performance today...but showed a lack of sqaud depth I think.

A few changes post WC.. hopefully the prem develops a few key positions and we can start and move forward.

The 6n is going to be great.
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
If Dan Cole and a Joe Marler retire on that I will be happy

Redemption all those years ago and can't fault them

Just a shame they are still considered our best props
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We're in deep trouble at Tight head.

Marler can stay on for me. ....Genge still not convincing on a consistent basis...
 
Yeah Marler almost retired a year or two ago, I reckon he retires from England now and from Harlequins whenever his current contract expires

We've got depth at loosehead, untested sure but the players are there - as above: tighthead is a real concern though
Genuinely there is no-one, unless Heyes makes a serious surge, he's still very young

Need to bring in hookers we trust as well - hoping for Langdon, he's comfortably the most well rounded we have
 

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