England vs Tonga (06/11)

[ncurd]

Look its Tonga if we have to play Youngs/Farrell against them what hope do we ever have of dropping them?

 

[will311293]

England team announced.

Genge, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Underhill, Curry, Youngs, Farrell, May, Tuilagi, Slade, Radwan, Steward

Subs: Blamire, Marler, Stuart, Ewels, Dombrandht, Mitchell, Smith, Furbank

Eddie "I want to build towards the 2023 World Cup"....... Picks the same team pretty much. Geniunely wouldn't have suprised me if LCD, Watson, Daly were fit then we wouldn't have seen anyone.

 

[Teddington Logic]

Actually, I think starting Farrell at 10 means he is more likely to come off after 45-50 minutes than if he was at 12

However the more likely scenario is that Tuilagi will get injured quite early (he has been too long without injury, just like Billy was) and that Farrell moves put to 12 in the first half

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I reckon Farrell plays the 80, but the final 20 will be at 12

 

[Reiser99]

Actually, I think starting Farrell at 10 means he is more likely to come off after 45-50 minutes than if he was at 12

However the more likely scenario is that Tuilagi will get injured quite early (he has been too long without injury, just like Billy was) and that Farrell moves put to 12 in the first half

Nah will be Tuilagi or Slade and Farrell shifts to 12.

 

[Geordie]

Well lets give them the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe Youngs, Farrell etc etc will have license to open it up...and from 11 out...thats some firepower.

Dombrandt and Smith will maybe come on at half time...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Well Eddie will be an idiot as always.

Why isn't smith and uni rig starting against Tonga.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Well lets give them the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe Youngs, Farrell etc etc will have license to open it up...and from 11 out...thats some firepower.

Dombrandt and Smith will maybe come on at half time...

Or they get the Dunn treatment and come on at 78 minutes.

 

[will311293]

I get that Smith isn't fully fit.... but what more are we going to learn about Slade against Tonga or Lawes, or Curry or Underhill for that matter.

We all know that when fit those 4 will always be starting for us against the NZ, SA, Aus of the world but why bully Tonga into a singificant defeat and learn nothing about Martin, Marchant, Ludlham, Chick,etc and Eddie's nemesis Simmonds.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I personally understand Curry at 8 it's very likely he might have to cover 8 in a match day squad, I don't understand having him start at 8 instead of Dombrandt.

 

[Teddington Logic]

It is a pretty horrible thing to say, but never before have I wanted a couple of injuries/HIA's to happen early in a game before to force EJ's hand

 

[ncurd]

I personally understand Curry at 8 it's very likely he might have to cover 8 in a match day squad, I don't understand having him start at 8 instead of Dombrandt.

Especially when you could go

4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Dombrandt

Could swap 6/7 depending on preference. Its also what we should be aiming for roughly match day come world cup surely?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I've stayed off the forum for a while as I was spending way too much time on here. But I'm annoyed by Dombrandt and Smith's benching. If they don't start this one, then when? Smith is either fit or he isn't.

Curry at 8 in anything but an emergency is nuts when we have other good options.

On the subject of Curry.....

I've been reading a lot in the press about how he's the second coming. He's excellent, but there's at least one big question mark against him - in 4 huge games against the Boks (RWC final and Lions) he hasn't remotely had the impact expected - far from alone in that, but true nonetheless. Can he be a big influence and leader against them in a couple of weeks?

Assuming the 8 experiment doesn't last I don't think him and Underhill are the right long term flanker combination. Fantastic individually, but fundamentally 2 opensides which is a similar eggs in one basket principle as Rodber and Clarke in a different style of rugby back in the day. It will look fantastic when it comes off but real issues when it doesn't.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

In defence of Curry a 7 can't do much if the pack is getting dominated which is what happened in the RWC and Lions tours.
It's next to impossible to legally jackel if teams can keep getting over the gainline

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've been reading a lot in the press about how he's the second coming. He's excellent, but there's at least one big question mark against him - in 4 huge games against the Boks (RWC final and Lions) he hasn't remotely had the impact expected - far from alone in that, but true nonetheless. Can he be a big influence and leader against them in a couple of weeks?

He was standout vs them on our Tour pre-RWC though,
I still think Underhill/Curry are our best flank combo by a longshot, and I want to see how they work with Dombrandt at 8

For all the talk of do they/don't they work together, they've barely played together since the RWC (four games at 6/7, and we won all of them)
In fact we've only ever lost one game with the Kamikaze Twins at 6/7 and it was the RWC final

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

My money is on Eddie planning rwc 23 of
1. Marler, 2. LCD, 3. Sinckler
4. Itoje, 5. Hill/Kruis
6. Curry, 7. Underhill, 8. Vunipola
9. Youngs, 10. Farrell
12. Manu, 13. Slade
11. Watson, 14. May, 15. Daly

16. George, 17. Vunipola, 18. Stuart
19. Lawes, 20. Willis
21. Randall, 22. Smith, 23. Malins

 

[Geordie]

Or they get the Dunn treatment and come on at 78 minutes.

Nah, they will get plenty of time this AI.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

In defence of Curry a 7 can't do much if the pack is getting dominated which is what happened in the RWC and Lions tours.
It's next to impossible to legally jackel if teams can keep getting over the gainline

To add to this the 7's will often work in tandem with more than just the 6. We were outmuscled in the locks too. I think Itoje is a fine lock but he is on the lighter and more dynamic side. That's not a problem itself but it's no coincidence England worked better with a more heavy duty lock pairing with him (St Kruis). Why Launchbury or Attwood barely got a look in as a pairing with Itoje I can't understand as a few years ago I would have said that would be the best pairing after Kruis. Itoje with Lawes simply lacks the bulk. Underhill can hit like a truck but ultimately it felt like Curry was doing more work putting hits in that took away his ability to jackal, especially as he had bigger players clearing him out.

Ultimately though Curry and Underhill weren't that bad in the final, just not as dominant as they have been other times. Had the team not collectively got butterfingers and Mako Vunipola not been absolutely awful in the scrum, the game would have had a very different feel to it.

I think a more dynamic 8 and a more heavy duty 2nd lock will free Curry and Underhill up to be more of a menace at the breakdown again.

 

[BPM]

Look its Tonga if we have to play Youngs/Farrell against them what hope do we ever have of dropping them?

Well it didn't help that Smith hasn't trained all week and Quirke and Randall got injured.

 

[BPM]

I get that Smith isn't fully fit.... but what more are we going to learn about Slade against Tonga or Lawes, or Curry or Underhill for that matter.

We all know that when fit those 4 will always be starting for us against the NZ, SA, Aus of the world but why bully Tonga into a singificant defeat and learn nothing about Martin, Marchant, Ludlham, Chick,etc and Eddie's nemesis Simmonds.

Whereas this, I agree with entirely.