England vs Tonga (06/11)

[Geordie]

In short - give me a better suggestion and I'll listen, until then. I'd prefer to give Eddie the benefit of the doubt.

Play Dombrandt at 8, Curry at 6 and Underhill at 7, hell id even cope with Lawes at 6, Curry at 7,...

 

[BPM]

And I'd agree with you except you know full well that's not he suggestion I was looking for.

I'm asking 'if not Eddie then who?'.

 

[Geordie]

Can you replace Eddie between now and the WC? i dont think we should.

Sometimes his selections are a bit puzzling to say the least...but the other side is that all the top people in rugby mention just how good a coach he is and he can see how tactics on the field change year to year etc.

I said prior to the last world cup...we'd get the semi final....then win 2023.
We went one better and made the final....so we really need to put the marker down as a team that really can win in 2023.

Plus in reality its Eddies last chance at a WC win....

After the World Cup we can find the new pretender.

 

[BPM]

Exactly. I don't always like selections or style of rugby but I can't see an obviously better option out there, particularly at this point of the cycle.

TBH, I don't really know what the 'I can't wait to be rid of him' brigade want? You can't just call for someone to be replaced without a clear idea of who would replace them and ideally some actual evidence it would actually be better.

 

[Which Tyler]

Exactly. I don't always like selections or style of rugby but I can't see an obviously better option out there, particularly at this point of the cycle.

TBH, I don't really know what the 'I can't wait to be rid of him' brigade want? You can't just call for someone to be replaced without a clear idea of who would replace them and ideally some actual evidence it would actually be better.

I agreed but...
You CAN do exactly that, you just have to accept that you're being logically inconsistent. Alternatively, there's also a nadire at which point "anything would be better than this" - Eddie Jones' England hasn't got close to this point.

For me, I don't expect to particularly agree with any coach, on selection or tactics; and allow that plans don't always come to fruition, and that soundbites to the press really sholdn't be the same as what they actually think.
What I look for is internal consistency - Does it look like the team on the pitch actually know what the game plan is? Does that game plan appear to evolve in a sensible manner? is there a mix of consistency of selection with trying of new ideas, new players, planning for eventualities.
For me, Eddie hits all of those targets; whilst soeone like Robinson seems to switch things around randomly, and I really couldn't tell what he was trying to do; or Lancaster who built a way of playing, had the players train for that; and then turned about and did the opposite, with minimal logic to his decisions.

 

[ncurd]

I think there is a logic point of going a refresh in coaching setup could be the shakeup England need and to remove players that have stagnated and regressed (Young/Farrell you know the drill). Its less "anyone would be better" but "a fresh pair of eyes would be better".

 

[TRF_Olyy]

TBH, I don't really know what the 'I can't wait to be rid of him' brigade want?

I think most are counting down until his contract is over rather than specifically calling for his head now

I think there is a logic point of going a refresh in coaching setup could be the shakeup England need and to remove players that have stagnated and regressed (Young/Farrell you know the drill). Its less "anyone would be better" but "a fresh pair of eyes would be better".

Which is where a strong backroom setup would be good - instead we're hiring less and less experienced coaches who are grateful just to be there, so aren't going to rock the boat

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think most are counting down until his contract is over rather than specifically calling for his head now



Which is where a strong backroom setup would be good - instead we're hiring less and less experienced coaches are more and more grateful just to be there, so aren't going to rock the boat

This, I don't like Jones and feel over time he has been making England worse after an initial period where he had them playing very well and was making a lot of quite logical tactical and selection decisions. Over time he has been making more and more baffling selections, displaying signs of favouritism, has failed to stamp out the discipline problems and the initial good use of the bench has been replaced with some **** poor bench choices and use. I think he has enough to get us to perform reasonably well at the next world cup but I'll be very surprised if we perform better than last time, I feel we have stagnated and don't believe he is going to turn it around now.

So it's more feeling we aren't going to achieve much more under him and that he definitely needs to go after the next WC. Happy to be proven wrong though but I don't think I will given the trend in England performances.

 

[Geordie]

Apparently theres a covid outbreak in camp...team named at 12.15

Wonder if there will be people from outside the squad come back in?

 

[Geordie]

Borthwick will have coached Prem and European Champions by the time Eddies contract is out...and he will be the natural successor....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Apparently it's a support staff member that's tested positive, no positive LFTs for anyone else, waiting on PCR results now (hence the delay)

 

[Wasps92]

A member of staff had tested positive, hopefully none of the players are affected.

 

[Geordie]

A member of staff had tested positive, hopefully none of the players are affected.

Ah right, thanks for the info

 

[TRF_Olyy]

ENGLAND XV STARTERS
15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
14. Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 40 caps)
12. Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 43 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 66 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 93 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 109 caps)
1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 30 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 59 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 44 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 48 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 87 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 24 caps)
8. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 33 caps)

FINISHERS 16. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 2 caps) 17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 72 caps) 18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 12 caps) 19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 23 caps) 20. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 1 cap) 21. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped) 22. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 2 caps) 23. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)

 

[TommiG88]

Not the worst. Was expecting to see Marchant in the 23 shirt

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

ENGLAND XV STARTERS
15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
14. Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 40 caps)
12. Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 43 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 66 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 93 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 109 caps)
1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 30 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 59 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 44 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 48 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 87 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 24 caps)
8. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 33 caps)

FINISHERS 16. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 2 caps) 17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 72 caps) 18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 12 caps) 19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 23 caps) 20. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 1 cap) 21. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped) 22. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 2 caps) 23. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)

As long as Farrell and Youngs come off with a reasonable amount of time left, I can live with that team tbh. 2 real speedster wingers. A Tuilagi-Slade combo with Smith at 10 could be interesting, but I suspect 1 of them will go off and Farrell will shift to 12 rather than that happening.

 

[Reiser99]

Not great, but could have been worse.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A mixture of good and inevitable,
Don't understand Curry at 8 and Dombrandt on the bench in the slightest

Farrell/Youngs should be split up - they shouldn't be starting games together anymore

 

[ncurd]

ENGLAND XV STARTERS
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 93 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 109 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 87 caps)
8. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 33 caps)

 

[Teddington Logic]

Hope its not too cold as Steward and Radwan will have to find some way of keeping their hands warm for the first 40 mins because they wont see much of the ball with 2 kickers at 9 and 10 and a no 8 who won't know how to distribute the ball.

Hopefully look forward to the second half