England v Wales

[englishrugbyfan_oh]

Appalling. Am so irritated by an enlgand team who dominated the first 55mins of the game and then threw it away. Wales were not good - their line-out was a shambles and they were turned over again and again. England can blame some early injuries which upset the team's balance but when you've got Rees, Vainokolo and Kay coming on you can hardly complain. Poor execution in the first half and stupid mistakes in the second cost enlgand the game.



And on a side note I hate Balshaw, hopefully he won't get picked again (maybe Josh Lewsey might be called up, heres hoping!). Gomarsall had a pretty bad game too.

 

[kingwilko]

No disrespect to any Welsh fans but Wales didn't win that game; England lost it. Brain-less (Wales has the "Brains"?) rugby in their own half and errors that you wouldn't expect school sides to make. That said, they ended the game with 3 flyhalfs and 3 second rows on the pitch so I can see why balance might have been a problem.
I don't blame Ashton for the defeat - I just the think the mental state of the England team is very fragile despite being WC finalists. They need decisions to go their way and for the opposition to make errors otherwise they start doing it. Massively disappointed with Gomersall and Wilkinson too; they should have been bossing the game but, in the second half, they were well below par.
Personally I'd put Flood into flyhalf, drop Wilkinson, put Lewsey (or pretty much anyone else) at full back and hope that Vainikolo has some friends who want to play for England too. I would put in a positive mention for Flood - really impressed by his game today and Strettle looked good too in the 3 minutes he was on for.
Anyway really can't believe we (don't ask me how I live in Scotland but suppport England) lost and I still reckon this side is good enough to beat the French and Irish.

 

[Cymro]

What should Gatland do next week? Should he stick with this team, or try some different players to give them a chance? Realistically, I can't see Wales losing to Scotland in Cardiff (but we haven't seen Scotland play yet), so perhaps Shanklin, Roberts and Peel (among others) may get a start. Hook was class in this game, so I can't see him losing the shirt in the future. [/b]

Byrne was poor so I see Roberts coming in for him, Parker is a pile of crap therefore Shanklin will come in, I see Delve coming in at 8 and Jones moved to 6!

Id like to see Geth Jenkins start at tighthead!

 

[Thingimubob]

One question: How did we win that?

So pleased we won, despite being really pants first half, and I guess it shows Gatland has a lot of talent and good things to work with, but a lot of bad things to try and sort out. First half, everything went Englands way, they were on the front foot most of the half, and got away with a lot of illiegal stuff (England have always been good at that). Second half, it was the other way round, Wales just steadily pushed their way forward, and two real chances, two tries.

In general, Wales kept going, England just gave up. As Jake White said, 'Wales didn;t win, England lost.' TBH I don't give a monkey's arse, it was still 26 - 19 to Wales
Henson had a good game, didn;t stand out fantasticly, but still did everything right, and put in a good performance. Vainikolo, apart from that class catch and offload, not so much. I mean, England used him as a forward at the end, and he was more effective.

 

[Vambo]

Congrats to all the Welsh fans on this board. Enjoy your victory peeps.... the bragging rights are yours

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

The second half was an absolute disgrace. Oh for Martin Johnson - had we a leader of his character that match would have been closed for a 30 point victory.

I've decided that if Ian Balsackofshit gets picked next week I'm simply not going to watch. Unless he is in fact Brian Ashton's illegitimate love-child, that simply has to be his last chance. I'd rather have had an off-form Tait. Never been so gutted to have been proved right about a player.

Would also drop Wilkinson, Tindall (who luckily seems to have injured himself) and Sackey before next week. Geraghty, Cipriani, Hipkiss, Smith, Ashton, Lamb, Allen, Armitage - hell, even Varndell must be pushing for starting place on the back of that capitulation.

Even a stunning performance by James Haskell couldn't balance out the turds lurking behind the scrum.

Can't detract from the Welsh spirit, but they really did nothing to win that match. A consistent performance wouldn't have seen them come close to us the way things were going.

Simply abysmal.

 

[Cymro]

Nice to see some English Rugby fans taking the loss with dignity, in and around Cardiff tonight there are many who want to start fights right left and center!

But I really think England had a crazy last 20 mins where they thre the game away!

 

[Captain Morgan]

...but they really did nothing to win that match.
[/b]

Apart from score two tries.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

<div class='quotemain'>
...but they really did nothing to win that match.
[/b]

Apart from score two tries.
[/b][/quote]

Both of which were gifts due to Sackey simply falling of a tackle after rushing into the wrong position, and Balshite kicking the ball straight at the line of onrushing Welsh defenders.

Apart from one Henson break, Wales barely got in behind England's defence other than those two moments presented to them on a plate.

I've already said you can't take anything away from Wales' fighting spirit, but that was a match we were in control of and simply shouldn't have lost. There's no way you could honestly tell you felt surges of optimism going in at half-time on the back of the first 40 minutes?

 

[Captain Morgan]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
...but they really did nothing to win that match.
[/b]

Apart from score two tries.
[/b][/quote]

Both of which were gifts due to Sackey simply falling of a tackle after rushing into the wrong position, and Balshite kicking the ball straight at the line of onrushing Welsh defenders.

Apart from one Henson break, Wales barely got in behind England's defence other than those two moments presented to them on a plate.

I've already said you can't take anything away from Wales' fighting spirit, but that was a match we were in control of and simply shouldn't have lost. There's no way you could honestly tell you felt surges of optimism going in at half-time on the back of the first 40 minutes?
[/b][/quote]

I am Welsh mate, i ALWAYS feel urges of optimism

I guess what i am trying to say is that England got to a lead because they capitalised on Wales being ****, Wales got to the lead because they capatalised on England being **** (so the **** to **** ratio was higher for Wales I agree).
Plus if Sackey making errors is the reason why Wales scored then it is also the reason England scored seeing as he did not take the quick lineout correctly.

 

[dullonien]

What a game, watched it in a pub packed of both welsh and a few english, couldn't believe it at the final whistle, almost lost my voice through screaming so much second half.

The reason Wales won was because they actually got into the game in the second half. They had nothing to go on in the first, 35% possetion and 6 turn overs meant it was impossible to do anything. Poor play from certain england players helped, but you can't take anything away from that win, I know Wales have been on the other side of losses like that on numerous occasions.

Anyone else reminded of 2005, I'm not saying Wales are going on to win a grand slam, but they gotta gain allot of confidence from this, something they have been clearly lacking in recent years.

 

[Cymonicon]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
...but they really did nothing to win that match.
[/b]

Apart from score two tries.
[/b][/quote]

Both of which were gifts due to Sackey simply falling of a tackle after rushing into the wrong position, and Balshite kicking the ball straight at the line of onrushing Welsh defenders.

Apart from one Henson break, Wales barely got in behind England's defence other than those two moments presented to them on a plate.

I've already said you can't take anything away from Wales' fighting spirit, but that was a match we were in control of and simply shouldn't have lost. There's no way you could honestly tell you felt surges of optimism going in at half-time on the back of the first 40 minutes?
[/b][/quote]



But all in all, considering all the factors required to win a game of rugby Wales were better than England, its just that simple, there was not a great deal of good luck on wales' side, England lacked the ability to play for the full 80 mins. That requires not just spirit but discipline and leadership.

If England did manage to win that game it would be a travesty for welsh rugby not to be able to beat a team which played at best like a pub team for 35 mins.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

People are missing the point of what I'm saying. Not once have I said England deserved to win, let's just clear that up.

What I am saying, is that we should have been able to not only maintain, but also improve on the standard of controlled rugby we showed we were capable of in the first 40 minutes. I'm slating my own team here for simply failing to close out a match which should have been been made safe.

The only change Wales really made at any point was an increase in desire to chase the ball, which may have played it's part in England's implosion. If you look at their technical play when in possession, the Welsh only improved slightly as the match wore on, whereas England got far worse. This is why pundits are saying that England lost the match rather than Wales winning it.

 

[Thingimubob]

yeah, I mean tbh, I think the main reason England lost was 1) They didn't finish off enough of their chances 1st half and 2)This meant that when they made an almighty cock up of a second half Wales took their chances and went ahead. But still, it might have given Wales confidence, but we HAVE to make sure we don't play anything like we did for the first 50 - 60 minutes of the match, or it's not gonna be a good 6 Nations for us.

Oh yeah - can I just ask, did anybody actually think Sackey touched down and scored? I don't have a clue what Brian Moore and Eddie Butler were on about, it was blatantly obvious Huw Bennett had his arm under the ball.

 

[Captain Morgan]

This is why pundits are saying that England lost the match rather than Wales winning it.
[/b]

Or to stop themselves from looking stupid.
I think a lot Welsh fans will object to this claim as it may feel like a poor excuse and appears to be taking away the win and sense of achievement, I don't mean you personally here or that this is your intention but people do feel this. When it mattered Wales were the better team, and even when England were the better team they did not do much to compound this.
You say people are missing the point, I agree with you, i guess us thickos over the boarder don't understand essentially saying "we lost because you were better than us" can be used as an excuse, but some how the English have managed to do it.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Yes, you're right, what I've actually done is cunningly hidden insults about all you leek-munchers being stupid in my analysis. Well spotted.

I give up, even I've lost what my original point was now I've realised how us ******* English are trying to steal you're glory.

Carry on.

 

[noikz]

It's funny how people keep saying it was only Englands mistakes that lost them the game, making mistakes in sport is a new phenomenon? England did so well in the first half because of Wales' mistakes, Ricky Hatton lost to Mayweather because of a mistake, Räikkönen won the F1 World Championship because of Lewis Hamilton's mistakes. You could apply the theory to everything, England's World Cup in 2003 was only down to mistakes made by Australia maybe? :wah:

 

[Macsen]

England lost it AND Wales won it. That's how Sport works.

 

[Bullitt]

It's funny how people keep saying it was only Englands mistakes that lost them the game, making mistakes in sport is a new phenomenon? England did so well in the first half because of Wales' mistakes, Ricky Hatton lost to Mayweather because of a mistake, Räikkönen won the F1 World Championship because of Lewis Hamilton's mistakes. You could apply the theory to everything, England's World Cup in 2003 was only down to mistakes made by Australia maybe? :wah: [/b]

- Hatton v Mayweather; Result because of a complete mismatch
- Hamilton v Raikkonen; The 'mysterious' switching off of Hamiltons car after Ecclestone saying pre race "Hamilton won't be world champion".
- Australia v England; The Australian insistance they can win a game of Union with League style forwards and fat ******** (ie can't)

England were punished today because they didn't capitalise on the good pressure applied in the first half (eg. taking a 3 pointer when the Welsh pack had just been warned and the lineout was stuttering), or completely ignoring Vinakolos wing despite him having a storming first 15 minutes. After the break a classic Rob Andrew talking-to must have occoured as it was a completely different side that came out, at the same time Wales introduced the likes of Shanklin and found some rythm. This put more pressure on the English defence, which with Sackey and Balshaw as the last 2 lines of defence is always going to result in bad news.

Combine this with strange selections such as Gommersall (who's in such a poor run of form that he can't even get a start for Quins), Kay (who's been seven shade of shite for years), 3 fly-halfs and no spare centres. Introducing Mears & Kay were poor decisions (although Kay for Rees was a necessity through injury).

The introduction of Hipkiss, Allen, Palmer, Abandaman, Lamb, Wigglesworth and maybe Varndell (yes, I did just say that useless Leicester twat) or Chris Ashton needs to happen before next week. Get rid of Gommersall, Tindall, Balshaw, Kay, Sackey, Wilkinson, Vickery, Reagan and Mears.

Hopefully we'll see a complete overhaul of the team before next week. And both Rob Andrew and Ian Balshaw being hung by the neck from the highest rafter in the new South Stand.

Wales were poor in the first half, found some rhythm in the second and became a force. England started well, but there were too many past-it old boys who faded and the Bench was too heavily stacked with names and completely unbalenced.

Overall, England deserved to lose.


On the plus side however, Haskell, Rees and Narraway were an awsome backrow combination.

 

[Tony1974]

What are you on about? Balshaw played OK. The big problem is that Phil Vickery is a joke. His leadership is non existent. He should be dropped. England missed a chance to get rid of Ashton after the world cup. I bet they are regretting that now. Vickery and his captaincy and Ashton and his management are now too closely related. They rely on each other. Anbd both should be binned. All England rugby captains should have the ability to get through Sandhurst, Vickery wouldn't get through week 2.