[2024 Six Nations] Ireland v Wales - 14:15, Lansdowne Road

[General Melchett]

 

[dullonien]

Mixed feelings after that one. Gutsy performance, which for a young side is a good baseline to work from I suppose. There seems to be a spine of a side emeeging. At times the two sides looked very equal, but at other times it felt a little like men v boys!

The main issues as I see it are:

- Lack of carriers and/or subtelty in our carrrying. 90% of our phase play is one out passes to a static forward who get's smashed on or behind the gainline. We haven't got the players for that. Our props/locks are hard working, and our backrow on the small side. Where's the tip on passes, inside balls etc. Both England and Ireland have found it easy to rush up in defense and knock us back. Compare that to Scotland yesterday who at times easily manipulated the rush defense and exposed soft shoulders to make yards.

- Set piece has been an issue in every game, be it thr lineout when Elias is on, or the scrum yesterday. I'm not going to comment on the refereeing, but for me Asseratti really struggled with Porter's raw power. Dee has been excellent in the lineout and workrate ball in hand, but does his size affect the scrum?

- Beard was poor yet again imo. Feels like I keep singling him out, but he's exactly what we don't need at the moment. He took a couple of good lineouts, and is always busy-ish (not as busy as Jenkins though), but he's a completely inneffective carrier and tackler. I noticed two moments that summed these up. Off one restart he put in such a passive tackle that he was penalised for getting stuck on the wrong side. On another occassion later in the game, he was put into a little space on the edge and he only needed to be touched by Henshaw to crumple to the ground in a heap. The guy is 6'8" and well north of 18st, but plays like a weedy 8st kid! It's driving me crazy!

- Our midfield is becoming an issue. Costellow was better today. His kicking was decent, and he stood up defensively. But he didn't get the backs moving, not that there's much movement off him. Tompkins really striggled again. Aki just bullied him on occasion. North did ok, but he's not the attacking player he once was. I think we 100% need to try someone else at 12, but who? Hawkins would be the ideal player, but we can't ******* pick him! Kieran Williams would be worth a shot though. Or do we try Joe Roberts at 13 who seems to have a spark about him?

- Our wingers see very little ball. Not a new issue this, we've always moaned about it under Gats. Even so, Adams has been very poor thus far this 6N. About time we try someone else. Grady has done nothing either, but may as well try him? See if we can actually bring him off his wing and carry in midfield.

To end on a positive, Cam Winnett looks every bit an international fullback, very impressed with him once again. Need to get him on the ball as much as we can, because he's shown plenty of promise ball in hand too, without fully breaking free yet. Also a shout out to Wainwright who was great yet again.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Beards size didn't help us much in the scrum yesterday either. Surely, he's on the bench against France? I won't be holding my breath though.

I want to call out Gatland more but to be fair he's doing about as well as anyone could at the moment and apart from a few selection calls (which is standard) I agree largely with what he's doing. Even though deep down I think Gatland is past his sell by date the things I think he's generally good at are identifying good players and creating a team that are better than the sum of its parts which is what you want from a coach at the end of the day

Really wish Tshiunza was fit. I know he's stilll very green but I think he would've had quite a few mins at 6 this 6N (even though I'd have him in the row) which he desperately needs for his development. Good to see him training with the squad this week even if it was just holding bags.

 

[dullonien]

I think we might see a backrow of 6 Martin, 7 Reffell, 8 Wainwright next game. Mann hasn't done much wrong, and I think he'll develop into a solid option for us in the Lydiate mould i.e. defensive workhorse. However, atm we need a more abrasive 6 to takw some of the carrying load.

Martin got pinged for a no arms tackle v Ireland, but orherwise I thought he showed up quite well as far as 20y/o debutants go. Showed some physicality ball inhand and defense.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think we might see a backrow of 6 Martin, 7 Reffell, 8 Wainwright next game. Mann hasn't done much wrong, and I think he'll develop into a solid option for us in the Lydiate mould i.e. defensive workhorse. However, atm we need a more abrasive 6 to takw some of the carrying load.

Martin got pinged for a no arms tackle v Ireland, but orherwise I thought he showed up quite well as far as 20y/o debutants go. Showed some physicality ball inhand and defense.

Maybe, I wouldn't rule it out but I think it's more likely he goes the @dirty harry route and keeps his beloved Beard in the side and moves Jenkins to 6

 

[dullonien]

Maybe, I wouldn't rule it out but I think it's more likely he goes the @dirty harry route and keeps his beloved Beard in the side and moves Jenkins to 6

I don't see it myself. Well, I can see him keeping Beard in the side for some unknown reason, but not Jenkins at 6.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don't see it myself. Well, I can see him keeping Beard in the side for some unknown reason, but not Jenkins at 6.

The way I see it, if he isn't dropped next game for Rowlands he's never getting dropped. Thing is because he's so passive he never gets injured either. Gatland wants people to come to training to fight him, I don't reckon Beard has ever thrown a punch in his life.

 

[dirty harry]

Let's be honest, Beard is 6'5, 110kg, and pretty much our biggest guy. Jenkins is a great athlete, but he isnt a captain at all.

Beard was ok yesterday, he was good maul defence, and wasnt bad around the park.

Jenkins at 6 is making more and more sense

 

[Welsh Exile]

Let's be honest, Beard is 6'5, 110kg, and pretty much our biggest guy. Jenkins is a great athlete, but he isnt a captain at all.

Beard was ok yesterday, he was good maul defence, and wasnt bad around the park.

Jenkins at 6 is making more and more sense

Not as much sense as dropping beard and keeping Jenkins where he is. Beard could be 9 ft tall and 30 stone and it wouldn't make any difference.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This is good times. Have to remember to enjoy them.

 

[Welsh Exile]

That 21 point win over France was mad at the time but looking at them now i'm surprised it wasn't by more. Ireland are exceptional but outside of them, this year, has to be generally one of the lowest 6N in terms of quality there's been in quite a while.

 

[dullonien]

Let's be honest, Beard is 6'5, 110kg, and pretty much our biggest guy. Jenkins is a great athlete, but he isnt a captain at all.

Beard was ok yesterday, he was good maul defence, and wasnt bad around the park.

Jenkins at 6 is making more and more sense

You keep saying that Beard is our biggest player, but it makes no difference, the guy is so passive in almost everything he does, maul being the exception. There are so many examples of ineffective tackles, the 'soak' style tackle that would normally be associated by a weak outside half, not a big lock. His stats always read something like '5 carries for 1m' or something pathetic.

Jenkins workrate is higher, with more tackles, more carries, and more metres. Question his captaincy if you like, but as a player he's already superior and barely out of nappies! Rowlands is more physical, with more metres post contact and more dominant tackles. He also has a huge workrate, putting in some incredible shifts during the WC, 27 tackles v Fiji!

Beard reminds me of Derwyn Jones. All the size in the world, but lacking in power.

 

[dirty harry]

You keep saying that Beard is our biggest player, but it makes no difference, the guy is so passive in almost everything he does, maul being the exception. There are so many examples of ineffective tackles, the 'soak' style tackle that would normally be associated by a weak outside half, not a big lock. His stats always read something like '5 carries for 1m' or something pathetic.

Jenkins workrate is higher, with more tackles, more carries, and more metres. Question his captaincy if you like, but as a player he's already superior and barely out of nappies! Rowlands is more physical, with more metres post contact and more dominant tackles. He also has a huge workrate, putting in some incredible shifts during the WC, 27 tackles v Fiji!

Beard reminds me of Derwyn Jones. All the size in the world, but lacking in power.

Jenkins is what 21? Of course his work rate is higher. Beard is only 28, he is just entering his peak phase, he isnt a ball carrying lock.

You can judge him on Carrie's or tackle count all you like, but that doesnt make a player. He contributes a huge amount to the set peice, maul, maul defence and is a solid defender, if his carry is poor I can deal with that.

I get he isnt performing top of his game, but he is solid enough to warrant his shirt, I wouldnt begrudge him losing it, but I also wouldnt be surprised to see Jenkins drop to the bench either.

 

[dirty harry]

There is an image circling social media of Wainright clearly placing the ball on the try line...

Not sure of its authenticity, but if so it's a poor miss from the ref, that said given his first 30 mins it's probably a standard decision by him

 

[Welsh Exile]

Do we really lose anything in the scrum or maul defence with Rowlands playing? If so it's negligible in my opinion and what we'd undoubtedly make up in attack and defence with Rowlands playing more than makes up for any potential loss in the tight.

It's all just preferences at the end of the day. I can see why he plays, he seems like a leader in the group, he's experienced, he's consistent (though I'd argue consistently average) but second rows need some dog in them and, more importantly, need to be skilful these days and I just don't see either of those qualities in him sadly.

Dont get me wrong, he's not the only one and front 5 is generally a problem area but we have literally zero options at say tight head for example and we're not producing any decent front row forwards really (Lake aside) so it's harder to be too critical of your Assiratti's, Elias's, Lewis', Dee's etc etc.

For me, in the second row I'd rather see Rowlands, Tshiunza, Teddy Williams, Rhys Davies, Fender, Carter, **** I'd even rather see Seb Davies play before Beard as although he doesn't carry his weight (just like Beard) at least he's skilful and our set piece is pretty **** even with Beard in the side so how much worse can it get, especially with someone good like Rowlands replacing him.

 

[dirty harry]

Do we really lose anything in the scrum or maul defence with Rowlands playing? If so it's negligible in my opinion and what we'd undoubtedly make up in attack and defence with Rowlands playing more than makes up for any potential loss in the tight.

It's all just preferences at the end of the day. I can see why he plays, he seems like a leader in the group, he's experienced, he's consistent (though I'd argue consistently average) but second rows need some dog in them and, more importantly, need to be skilful these days and I just don't see either of those qualities in him sadly.

Dont get me wrong, he's not the only one and front 5 is generally a problem area but we have literally zero options at say tight head for example and we're not producing any decent front row forwards really (Lake aside) so it's harder to be too critical of your Assiratti's, Elias's, Lewis', Dee's etc etc.

For me, in the second row I'd rather see Rowlands, Tshiunza, Teddy Williams, Rhys Davies, Fender, Carter, **** I'd even rather see Seb Davies play before Beard as although he doesn't carry his weight (just like Beard) at least he's skilful and our set piece is pretty **** even with Beard in the side so how much worse can it get, especially with someone good like Rowlands replacing him.

Seb ******* Davies...

Leave it out will you!!!

 

[Duct Tape]

Enjoyed my first game at Aviva this past Saturday. I expected more from the crowd, but maybe it was tempered by expectations of an easy victory plus an early lead. It did get a little louder down on our end when Wales mounted a brief comeback with the penalty try. I was thinking before the match that Wales would miss LRZ, but I can't recall the ball ever making it out to a Wales wing. Even as an Ireland fan I thought the best player on the field, from my very low perspective in the corner, was the Wales 15.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Seb ******* Davies...

Leave it out will you!!!

Can Beard do this? I think not. I rest my case. I win the internet.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Reasonably interesting stuff. Ireland targeting the horizontally challenged.

 

[Bluemoon]

Do we really lose anything in the scrum or maul defence with Rowlands playing? If so it's negligible in my opinion and what we'd undoubtedly make up in attack and defence with Rowlands playing more than makes up for any potential loss in the tight.

It's all just preferences at the end of the day. I can see why he plays, he seems like a leader in the group, he's experienced, he's consistent (though I'd argue consistently average) but second rows need some dog in them and, more importantly, need to be skilful these days and I just don't see either of those qualities in him sadly.

Dont get me wrong, he's not the only one and front 5 is generally a problem area but we have literally zero options at say tight head for example and we're not producing any decent front row forwards really (Lake aside) so it's harder to be too critical of your Assiratti's, Elias's, Lewis', Dee's etc etc.

For me, in the second row I'd rather see Rowlands, Tshiunza, Teddy Williams, Rhys Davies, Fender, Carter, **** I'd even rather see Seb Davies play before Beard as although he doesn't carry his weight (just like Beard) at least he's skilful and our set piece is pretty **** even with Beard in the side so how much worse can it get, especially with someone good like Rowlands replacing him.

Haha, even with my best Cardiff biased glasses on I can't back you here with Seb sorry mate. So much promise, but not the beef for an international row and gives away more penalties than Elias misses his man in the line out.

I can see why you might go with Rowlands over him though, I'd accept that argument. Although Im guessing it's this way around so when Elias and Rowlands come on together, Elias will have an easier target than Beard who is 10ft tall.