England v New Zealand

[woodward]

Donald doesn't have good situational awareness. When he takes the line on, at least at international level he just goes head down at the line as hard as possible. That's thing about Donald I really dislike, take Jane's try for example; the way carter put Read into space with the perfectly timed and weighted pass when received had already beaten the defence. Carter always keeps his options open with the ball in hand, if he has specific intentions he disguises them and the defence cannot commit to him. Carter hardly runs without a few good options, the times he does there's a massive gap and even then he doesn't telegraph it the way Donald does.

 

[nickdnz]

New Zealand team: Mils Muliaina (Chiefs), Joe Rokocoko (Blues), Sonny Bill Williams (Canterbury), Ma'a Nonu (Hurricanes), Hosea Gear (Hurricanes), Dan Carter (Crusaders), Alby Mathewson (Blues); Tony Woodcock (Blues), Keven Mealamu (Blues), Owen Franks (Crusaders), Brad Thorn (Crusaders), Sam Whitelock (Crusaders), Jerome Kaino (Blues), Richie McCaw (Crusaders, capt), Kieran Read (Crusaders).
Replacements: Hika Elliot (Hurricanes), Ben Franks (Crusaders), Anthony Boric (Blues), Liam Messam (Chiefs), Andy Ellis (Crusaders), Stephen Donald (Chiefs), Isaia Toeava (Blues).

Either they're taking the **** out of England or Sonny Bull and Mathewson are really good.

Put it this way, in the Super 14 I presumed Mathewson would have been ahead of Jimmy Cowan. He's actually very good, I'd say he's got the quickest acceleration of any half back in the S14, Genia included. He's got a bullit pass, and a great eye for the gap. He's got no real defense weakness, but a lack of test exposure could see him out of sorts. I wouldn't take Mathewson lightly. As for Sonny Bill Williams, I don't know. I'm predicting he has a solid game, with a few good off loads, but poor defensive positioning. Either way the NZ media will say he had the most impressive performance since Lomu 1995 and Carter 2005.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Either way the NZ media will say he had the most impressive performance since Lomu 1995 and Carter 2005.

The problem might actually come if he does have a real massive game for New Zealand. People seem to try and find the faults with him all the time, yet cannot accept he has worked to get his place in the AI squad. Personally I dont think Nonu should have started with him at centre, rather have seen a SBW - Smith combination there. I don't believe his defence is weak, he can tackle, he has shown that in the ITM and with Toloun in the Top 14. Saturday will put him on the map and show people he has arrived. He knows it and so does everyone, SBW loves proving people wrong, he's done it so far, expecting him to do it once again Saturday.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looking forward to seeing Ben Youngs vs Mathewson then, I can't recall seeing Mathewson play (I see he's only got 1 AB cap, but I've probably seen him in the Super at some point) but he sounds a similar player to Youngs from what Nick said. He's got 3years on Youngs as well

 

[nickdnz]

The problem might actually come if he does have a real massive game for New Zealand. People seem to try and find the faults with him all the time, yet cannot accept he has worked to get his place in the AI squad. Personally I dont think Nonu should have started with him at centre, rather have seen a SBW - Smith combination there. I don't believe his defence is weak, he can tackle, he has shown that in the ITM and with Toloun in the Top 14. Saturday will put him on the map and show people he has arrived. He knows it and so does everyone, SBW loves proving people wrong, he's done it so far, expecting him to do it once again Saturday.

Well for his sake, I hope he does. I don't know about the masses of doubters out there, I'm pretty sure I've been in the minority, for not being crazy over SBW, and a lot of that is nothing to do with him. I disagree that the NZRU should pay that amount of money, for what is likely to be a short investment, because of the message it sends players in New Zealand. I disagree with a lot of the NZ media and the public, about how good he has been. He hasn't been a collusus or a juggernaught. He has however shown promise. Providing he stays in NZ after 2011, I'd be delighted if he turned out to be the greatest thing to put on rugby boots, providing it's by my own standards and not by the SBW T-Shirt wearing, Rebel Sport ad jizzing, Sonny Bill kid naming, media.

Out of interest, if your last name is Williams, why have a middle name Bill? That's the equivelent of being called Nick Jimmy James. Not an insult, just an obscure observation.

 

[veux]

I bet Charlie Hodgson is praying to everything and anything out there that he won't come on - not only is he going to have Nonu running at him, but another massive guy running at him as well.

Johnson should have recalled Vesty or Andy Goode - if they'rte going to come on in the last 20 better to have someone who can tackle and hit the goals over than a massive defensive liability.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Well for his sake, I hope he does. I don't know about the masses of doubters out there, I'm pretty sure I've been in the minority, for not being crazy over SBW, and a lot of that is nothing to do with him. I disagree that the NZRU should pay that amount of money, for what is likely to be a short investment, because of the message it sends players in New Zealand. I disagree with a lot of the NZ media and the public, about how good he has been. He hasn't been a collusus or a juggernaught. He has however shown promise. Providing he stays in NZ after 2011, I'd be delighted if he turned out to be the greatest thing to put on rugby boots, providing it's by my own standards and not by the SBW T-Shirt wearing, Rebel Sport ad jizzing, Sonny Bill kid naming, media.

Out of interest, if your last name is Williams, why have a middle name Bill? That's the equivelent of being called Nick Jimmy James. Not an insult, just an obscure observation.

By the sound of it, its a tribute to his mother's father who was a legend in Auckland league circles. His mother is often the one seen to have gotten SBW into league despite his old man's history in the sport!

 

[gingergenius]

I just can't think why anybody would want to drop Conrad Smith. I'd pick him for Ireland if he was Irish.

Yeah I said that.

 

[veux]

Other thing is, if we lose this is going to be so embarrassing as plenty of names in that AB team that England supporters have never heard of.

 

[lynam1104]

I just can't think why anybody would want to drop Conrad Smith. I'd pick him for Ireland if he was Irish.

Yeah I said that.

Nobody eels would.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I bet Charlie Hodgson is praying to everything and anything out there that he won't come on - not only is he going to have Nonu running at him, but another massive guy running at him as well.

Meh, he did alright against Baabaas, Aussie Barbarians and Maori over the summer,
I hope he does come at one point, just so he can tackle Nonu

 

[ranger]

Well for his sake, I hope he does. I don't know about the masses of doubters out there, I'm pretty sure I've been in the minority, for not being crazy over SBW, and a lot of that is nothing to do with him. I disagree that the NZRU should pay that amount of money, for what is likely to be a short investment, because of the message it sends players in New Zealand. I disagree with a lot of the NZ media and the public, about how good he has been. He hasn't been a collusus or a juggernaught. He has however shown promise. Providing he stays in NZ after 2011, I'd be delighted if he turned out to be the greatest thing to put on rugby boots, providing it's by my own standards and not by the SBW T-Shirt wearing, Rebel Sport ad jizzing, Sonny Bill kid naming, media.

Out of interest, if your last name is Williams, why have a middle name Bill? That's the equivelent of being called Nick Jimmy James. Not an insult, just an obscure observation.

He has an older brother called John-Arthur. I think the family just have a thing for weird sounding old timey names..
Out of interest i have heard from mates in league circles that John Arthur was a tank and could have gone pro just as easily as SBW did. There is a legend that is commonly told about him hitting a guy so hard in a club game that he had to be hospitalized, after inspecting him the doctor supposedly said that the kind of damage done to the guys body was consistent with being hit by a vehicle. Rumour was that scores of NRL clubs were frothing over him but he decided he couldn't be stuffed with the work and was content with having a normal 9-5 job and just playing social grade league on Sunday afternoons.

You have to admire SBW working so hard and going on to become a dual international after that sort of role modeling.

 

[Shaggy]

I'm actually okay with this team and the "make do with what you've got" approach that the selectors seem to be using.

All teams are going to have players that get injured between now and the world cup, but the trouble is that we don't know which ones, so other players need to be tried before the RWC so that combinations can be established, and they aren't thrown in the deep end when it counts.

We need to see how they cope under pressure, as the pressure/expectation on the AB's next year at the RWC will be immense - playing against England in front of a large crowd will provide that for the new guys, and they have the experienced guys like Carter and Macaw to hopefully direct play

Looking forward to finally finding out if SBW is up to it or not.

... it will also be interesting to see if the squad is increased to 30 after the ITM cup final. Having someone like Slade on the bench covering 10,11,14, & 15, would allow a specialist Centre on the bench.

Anyway, can't wait for this game

EDIT: Apparently Conrad Smith has a minor hamstring issue, but could have played - source Graham Henry interview on NZ's Radio Sport

 

[Larksea]

I gotta admit I really like this 22 and overall I think it has the potential to be stronger than the 22 that was selected against Aussie, with the exception of Andy Elis who's on the bench...

But Franks for Afoa, Messam for Braid, Gear for Jane and Sonny Bill for Conrad Smith - makes for a very powerful lineup.

As far as the locks go too I wont hide the fact I really like Boric. I think recently he's looked really good playing for the AB's - in the early tests this year he out performed Thorn in my books - before he was injured. Very athletic and a strong ball carrier.

While Jane has been pretty good this year his ability to create chances on attack hasn't been as strong as it was last year, though he did very well to keep Habana in check. Gear could be a real threat this game though.

Conrad smith is a good smart player but stand him next to sonny bill and must look tiny. Smith is great on defence but I do worry about him defending the likes of Mortlock, Cross or jacques fourie, IMO he has real trouble with the bigger mid fielders once they get up some mommentum.

 

[Sam Owen]

He'd be lucky to make the bench though...

OOOkkkayy...I guess Sonny was unlucky then Nate.

Will be also be interesting to see Tindall vs SBW. 13 is very positional/takes knowhow, i think Tindall will school him tbh. He's not the fastest or strongest guy around, but he's got a truckload of experience, and has been on good form for Gloucester so far.

Yeah it's gonna be a good match up between the two. Mike is no joke and Sonnys biggest test opposite so far.

i thought cowan was excellent against Australia... why Mathewson?

Yeah thought they wouldve started Jimmy and brought Alby off the bench. Alby we didnt get to see too much of last week against the Wallies but what he did do he did well.

I would rather see an SBW-Smith combination, with Nonu on the bench covering wing-centre-2nd 5/8. This would put Gear and Rokocoko on the wings.

That sounds like a lethal backline but Ma'a is in great attacking form at the moment.

Toeava will move to fullback if Mils is injured

It'll be interesting to see how Ice goes if he's to come on as a fullback. Confidence is a must for a fullback and Im just wondering if Ices confidence took a blow last week. I cant remember the last time he played fullback???...he's versatile anyway so he could pop up anywhere. Good player though, I have no doubt or maybe a little (lol) as to his confidence.

Anyway, can't wait for this game

Me too brother.

In this game Im hoping to see the Stephen Donald that looked good about 2 or 3 weeks ago (whenever his his last game in the ITM was) I think the only thing that really annoys me about Stephen is hes a good player and he shows that in the ITM and Super Rugby games but his inability to prove himself more than capable at test level is just a real shame and must be frusterating for him.

Oh and Vic, cmon man Im sure Dans 1st kick was harder than Stephens missed penalty kick.

I cant wait for Sonny to get out there. Its a bit of a deep end start for him and I would prefer him coming off the bench for Ma'a but thats not going to be the case. Sonny will definately be all guns blazing.

Also looking forward to seeing the England side and their new players.

 

[smartcooky]

It's getting pretty pathetic, defending Donald's decisions. Either you're so bias, you can't admit that the players you've been talking up played poorly, or you don't know the first thing about rugby. He doesn't deserve a start, he deserves to be dropped, and I consider myself a fairly reasonable person when it comes to performances. 20 test, and has done next to nothing but prove he's out of his depth. There were huge doubts cast about him before the game, and they were confirmed. He can't handle pressure, he makes poor decision, he doesn't execute moves properly, and chooses the wrong time to do them. For all the complaints about Cruden, he looked far better than Donald, and he was having an average day. Slade, when he came on for 20+ minutes, made a big impact in beating Australia.

The cliche that you can't blame a player for a teams loss, is all well and good, but you can't deny that when Donald came on, he made crucial mistakes that cost the match, at a time in which mistakes could not afford to have been made, and they were mistakes that have been heavily criticised before he was even selected for the team.

1. He is a poor goal kicker under pressure. Yes Carter missed two kicks, from over 40m out, but the kick Donald missed, was fairly easy. I very much doubt Carter would have missed them. This comes down to handling pressure.
2. His chip kicks are predictable and don't pay off.
3. When under pressure, he becomes uncreative, and will not control the backline like he should, instead tries to just break the line himself.
4. He chokes, he made the wrong call (and with 20 seconds left on the clock, any move was better than a kick deep up field, with a good backline counter attacking. Had he kicked it into touch, with the ref playing on, the defence could have reorganized or even contested posession. Had he run it up a few more phazes, the All Blacks would have certainly won.

His strengths that were mentioned were both his good goal kicking, and good defence. In the time he was on the field, Donald missed over 5 tackles, while also doing a high shot, which would have likely been a yellow card (mr composure). His shot at goal, his other strength, missed from an easy angle. Stop making excuses for him. Had you said "Yeah, he had a bad day but I still think he has what it takes", I'm sure it could have been left there, but instead your approach was to blame everyone else under the sun, and claim Donald's performance wasn't sub-par.

Great post and a superb analysis of Donalds game, or lack of

Can't fault anything you have said here nick

 

[Larksea]

All I'll say is that if what you say was in fact true...

He wouldn't be there

But the reality is He is there. So there are 3 very experienced coaches who know more about rugby and the skill level and potential players have than you do who agree with me. And their livelihood depends on the decisions & selections they make.

 

[Darwin]

It'll be interesting to see how Ice goes if he's to come on as a fullback. Confidence is a must for a fullback and Im just wondering if Ices confidence took a blow last week. I cant remember the last time he played fullback???...he's versatile anyway so he could pop up anywhere. Good player though, I have no doubt or maybe a little (lol) as to his confidence.

Round 13 of the Super 14 - He was in my opinion the form NZ fullback of the Super 14. He hasn't played fullback for the AB's for a couple of years though, as Muliaina has basically owned the AB 15 jersey. Toeava last started for the AB's at fullback against both Australia and Scotland on NZ's end of year tour in 2008.

Looking forward to seeing Ben Youngs vs Mathewson then, I can't recall seeing Mathewson play (I see he's only got 1 AB cap, but I've probably seen him in the Super at some point) but he sounds a similar player to Youngs from what Nick said. He's got 3years on Youngs as well

Yep, Ben Youngs is exactly the player I would describe him as being similar to. He's very good at making sniping breaks around the ruck, and if he does make the break it often leads to a try as he's bloody quick. He's good defensively, and has a really good pass - the main reason he hasn't been given more time in the AB's is that he doesn't control the game as well as a Cowan or Weepu does. Mathewson doesn't seem to be able to boss the forwards around the same way that Cowan/Weepu seem to be able to - I think that is something he will pick up with some more experience though. The only other thing Mathewson needs to work on is his kicking game, while it's not poor, it's not as good as Weepu's or Cowan's. Personally I'm stoked that Mathewson is starting, as I've wanted him to start every game this year

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Surprised Dizzy hasn't been in here discussing this team,
Then again, he probably fainted when he reached "13" on the team sheet

 

[smartcooky]

All I'll say is that if what you say was in fact true...

He wouldn't be there

But the reality is He is there. So there are 3 very experienced coaches who know more about rugby and the skill level and potential players have than you do who agree with me. And their livelihood depends on the decisions & selections they make.

Your blind faith in the All Black selectors is very patriotic and most commendable. I don't share it. They have made a number of mistakes over their tenure, not all of which they have admitted to.

1. Rest and Re-cooperation; the wholesale removal of All Blacks from the 2007 Super 12. This was an enormous blunder, that ended up with crucial players being injured and unable to play at vital times (Dan Carter, Conrad Smith). I supported this at the time, so I was wrong as well.

2. The omission of Aaron Mauger for the 2007 quarter-final v France. A crucial blunder that may have cost us that game.

3. The failure to have a dropped goal plan for a close game. As far as I can see, they STILL don't have one, and that is worrying with the 2011 RWC only 10 months away, given that two of the seven RWC finals so far have been won with a dropped goal at the end. You rarely if ever see Dan Carter practising drop goals at training. (and I have been to a few). He is an awful drop goal kicker with an abysmal success rate... 2 dropped goals from 6 attempts in 75 tests.

4. Isaac Ross, Hosea Gear.... nuff said

5. Mils Muliaina at centre... nuff said

6. Getting Luke McAlister back from the NH

7. Letting Jerry Collins go, and the disgraceful manner in which they did so.

All this goes to show that these guys ARE capable of making mistakes.... big mistakes. They aren't infallible, and I ( as well as a LOT of other observers) believe they are making a mistake now.

If Donald comes on on Saturday, plays a blinder, and wins us the game, I will be the first to put my hand up and say I was wrong...

I won't be strolling down to the TAB to put any money on it!!!