England v New Zealand

[TRF Mr Fish]

Really?

Come off it mate, don't get me started.

 

[Conal]

Really?

right decesion poor executionn i reckon

 

[Nate Dizzle]

Lets just agree to disagree

 

[Covertjay]

Living in Asia so hard to follow things too closely. Guess they could move Gear back if Muliaina gets injured, Ice on the wing. He is getting older now (Mils). Scrum looked dominant in Tri Nats, poms rate theirs, and to be fair they're norally a good tight 5. Gettin excited.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Living in Asia so hard to follow things too closely. Guess they could move Gear back if Muliaina gets injured, Ice on the wing. He is getting older now (Mils). Scrum looked dominant in Tri Nats, poms rate theirs, and to be fair they're norally a good tight 5. Gettin excited.

Na Toeava will cover fullback, I was just reasoning as to why Toeava was on the bench ahead of Smith, who offers little versatility.

 

[Darwin]

Living in Asia so hard to follow things too closely. Guess they could move Gear back if Muliaina gets injured, Ice on the wing. He is getting older now (Mils). Scrum looked dominant in Tri Nats, poms rate theirs, and to be fair they're norally a good tight 5. Gettin excited.

Toeava will move to fullback if Mils is injured, as fullback is possibly Toeava's best position (he was outstanding there during the super 14 before getting injured). Neither Rococoko or Gear have any experience at fullback (as far as I'm aware), so Toeava had to be on the bench.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I feel better about this squad than if they played the one that faced Australia last week
Still an incredibly strong side, but they've taken off the form SH and split up one of the best midfield partnerships going.
Would've thought Nonu would be the one to makeway for SBW, seeing as they're fairly similar players.
Suppose the AB staff have been saying they're going to try and beat England on the physicality front

 

[donmcdazzle]

Firstly can we stop bagging Donald, there are a number of players who stuffed up and one could easily argue that Donald did the right thing.

In regards to the XV, I guess Toeava is on the bench because if Muliaina gets injured we'd be stuffed.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Donald on for Nonu or $BW at some point.

Well if putting in a nothing grubber straight to the opposition in your own 22, missing a relatively easy penalty and then not finding touch with 30 seconds left when your team has been defending its line are the right things to do then well done Donald you did the right things! If however, you would like to win a close match then he clearly did the wrong things. Please stop trying trying to defend him it's pathetic. Nobody except you and Larksea wants the guy anywhere near an All Black line up ever again. If he can't even do the basics in his own position how the hell is he going to cope adapting to 12. Let us all hope he gets nowhere near the field and is an emergency only replacement.

 

[Covertjay]

Hope Muliaina can avoid those nothing chip kicks.

 

[Nate Dizzle]

Gotta look at alternatives to Nonu and Smith I guess. I'm not confident about SBW starting this game and he's replacing one of the more consistent players in Smith, not an enviable task. Not too worried about Mathewson but if Andy Ellis comes on I might just flick it off. Reserves look dodgy to me let's hope the game isn't in the balance late from a NZ perspective.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Well if putting in a nothing grubber straight to the opposition in your own 22, missing a relatively easy penalty and then not finding touch with 30 seconds left when your team has been defending its line are the right things to do then well done Donald you did the right things! If however, you would like to win a close match then he clearly did the wrong things. Please stop trying trying to defend him it's pathetic. Nobody except you and Larksea wants the guy anywhere near an All Black line up ever again. If he can't even do the basics in his own position how the hell is he going to cope adapting to 12. Let us all hope he gets nowhere near the field and is an emergency only replacement.

The grubber was crap, yes, however he was definitely not the only player to miss a kick (and his was more difficult than others', plus it was one of the first things he had to do after coming on), his final kick to be honest wasn't awful, the chase was. Kicking it out would've either given the Wallabies a quick throw from a distance (same effect as not kicking it out) or given them a line out inside the 22. We can't really say for sure what he should've done - probably run it, but he didn't exactly get a good pass from Read, who should've driven the ball up first with the support of his forwards.

 

[Nate Dizzle]

Surely though Donald has had his chance 20 odd tests into his AB career and hasn't really flourished and still can't deal with the pressure. Carter had played far less than Donald lately and still looked far better. Oh well once this Saturday game is over Donald can have a break and we'll all talk about SBW and every mistake he made.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Surely though Donald has had his chance 20 odd tests into his AB career and hasn't really flourished and still can't deal with the pressure. Carter had played far less than Donald lately and still looked far better. Oh well once this Saturday game is over Donald can have a break and we'll all talk about SBW and every mistake he made.

I think Donald, Toeava etc will benefit hugely from a start, it's difficult to get 'in the zone' coming into a rugby match which is a fair bit different from your usual ones. Hopefully we'll see the pair of them against Scotland.

Oh and Donald got a couple of games at second five in the Super 14 this year, so it's hardly a new position for him. He would have had more, but Delany got injured.

 

[donmcdazzle]

The grubber was crap, yes, however he was definitely not the only player to miss a kick (and his was more difficult than others', plus it was one of the first things he had to do after coming on), his final kick to be honest wasn't awful, the chase was. Kicking it out would've either given the Wallabies a quick throw from a distance (same effect as not kicking it out) or given them a line out inside the 22. We can't really say for sure what he should've done - probably run it, but he didn't exactly get a good pass from Read, who should've driven the ball up first with the support of his forwards.

That kick was about 15 in from touch and about 20 odd metres out, bread and butter (watch the start of this video to see how routine the kick was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2VdCcO7L7g). Not as if he was in bad kicking form for Waikato, just shows he can't handle playing for the AB's. He lit up the ITM then panicked for the AB's which is what all the unbiased supporters on here predicted.

And that clearance kick had to go out. If he put it in about 30 out (a decent 1st five can kick it 40 odd metres surely) and far enough over the sidelines to negate the quick throw we would've had time to have a breather and refocus the defence. Not to mention contest a lineout. How can you blame the chase when they've been defending the line for repeated phases then the guy doesn't even kick it out.. Mate you have to kick that ball out, you just have to. Of course Read did the right thing, clear it to your first five who should've kicked it out, he was hardly under intense pressure for a charge down. The Read pass was fine, watch at the 4 minute mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2VdCcO7L7g.

What we should've done is taken the scrum for the knock on so he had two options; take the scrum or kick it properly out 30 odd metres out.

 

[woodward]

Kicking it out would've either given the Wallabies a quick throw from a distance (same effect as not kicking it out) or given them a line out inside the 22.

oh really.

Similar to Walker kicking it back to us in Sydney in 2000 I think it was

 

[lynam1104]

Slade should of been on this tour Donald has had to many chances he even screwed up against Munster's B team 2 years ago.

 

[Nate Dizzle]

Or atleast Cruden he played behind a pack that was dominated for most of the match in sydney and still came up a winner. He also plays behind possibly one of the lesser forward packs of the ITM cup, Manawatu, and still looks good. Just needs to eat more and suss out those horrendous restarts. But yeah Slade looks good too but then again he's at Canterbury one of the best teams year in year out. I think the Donald situation will be put to rest once this tour is over.

 

[nickdnz]

I think Donald, Toeava etc will benefit hugely from a start, it's difficult to get 'in the zone' coming into a rugby match which is a fair bit different from your usual ones. Hopefully we'll see the pair of them against Scotland.

Oh and Donald got a couple of games at second five in the Super 14 this year, so it's hardly a new position for him. He would have had more, but Delany got injured.

It's getting pretty pathetic, defending Donald's decisions. Either you're so bias, you can't admit that the players you've been talking up played poorly, or you don't know the first thing about rugby. He doesn't deserve a start, he deserves to be dropped, and I consider myself a fairly reasonable person when it comes to performances. 20 test, and has done next to nothing but prove he's out of his depth. There were huge doubts cast about him before the game, and they were confirmed. He can't handle pressure, he makes poor decision, he doesn't execute moves properly, and chooses the wrong time to do them. For all the complaints about Cruden, he looked far better than Donald, and he was having an average day. Slade, when he came on for 20+ minutes, made a big impact in beating Australia.

The cliche that you can't blame a player for a teams loss, is all well and good, but you can't deny that when Donald came on, he made crucial mistakes that cost the match, at a time in which mistakes could not afford to have been made, and they were mistakes that have been heavily criticised before he was even selected for the team.

1. He is a poor goal kicker under pressure. Yes Carter missed two kicks, from over 40m out, but the kick Donald missed, was fairly easy. I very much doubt Carter would have missed them. This comes down to handling pressure.
2. His chip kicks are predictable and don't pay off.
3. When under pressure, he becomes uncreative, and will not control the backline like he should, instead tries to just break the line himself.
4. He chokes, he made the wrong call (and with 20 seconds left on the clock, any move was better than a kick deep up field, with a good backline counter attacking. Had he kicked it into touch, with the ref playing on, the defence could have reorganized or even contested posession. Had he run it up a few more phazes, the All Blacks would have certainly won.

His strengths that were mentioned were both his good goal kicking, and good defence. In the time he was on the field, Donald missed over 5 tackles, while also doing a high shot, which would have likely been a yellow card (mr composure). His shot at goal, his other strength, missed from an easy angle. Stop making excuses for him. Had you said "Yeah, he had a bad day but I still think he has what it takes", I'm sure it could have been left there, but instead your approach was to blame everyone else under the sun, and claim Donald's performance wasn't sub-par.

 

[Sker]

I love Donald, I think he should be become AB's first choice fly-half. Especially in every match vs SA anyway...

 

[gingergenius]

New Zealand team: Mils Muliaina (Chiefs), Joe Rokocoko (Blues), Sonny Bill Williams (Canterbury), Ma'a Nonu (Hurricanes), Hosea Gear (Hurricanes), Dan Carter (Crusaders), Alby Mathewson (Blues); Tony Woodcock (Blues), Keven Mealamu (Blues), Owen Franks (Crusaders), Brad Thorn (Crusaders), Sam Whitelock (Crusaders), Jerome Kaino (Blues), Richie McCaw (Crusaders, capt), Kieran Read (Crusaders).
Replacements: Hika Elliot (Hurricanes), Ben Franks (Crusaders), Anthony Boric (Blues), Liam Messam (Chiefs), Andy Ellis (Crusaders), Stephen Donald (Chiefs), Isaia Toeava (Blues).

Either they're taking the **** out of England or Sonny Bull and Mathewson are really good.