[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[goodNumber10]

he basically said "we as english coaches owe it to the guys who made a commitment to staying in england to keep faith in them" - someone mentioned but Armtiage is unlucky to miss out on form and he straight away said "and so is dave ewers".

 

[yaboyjj]

I genuinly think they have an obsession with Tom Croft and lineouts- Lanky can't stop going on about how he'll be fit in August and how he's a British Lion- I don't know what they see in the guy, especially having barely played all year. If all they care about in a blindside is aerial ability, then they may as well play Parling there.

So it's basicaly Burgess, Strettle and Ashton in for Ewers, Wade and Roko

I bet Lee Dickson is congratulating himself for being the fourth choice scrum half in England...

 

[Patchey]

he basically said "we as english coaches owe it to the guys who made a commitment to staying in england to keep faith in them" - someone mentioned but Armtiage is unlucky to miss out on form and he straight away said "and so is dave ewers".

I like that.

 

[Tmartin995]

Just breaking it down into positions for an easier read:
LH: Corbs, Marler, Mullan, Vunipola
HK: Cowan-Dickie, Hartley, Webber, Youngs
TH: Brookes, Cole, Wilson
LK: Attwood, Itoje, Lawes, Launchbury, Kruis, Parling, Slater
FL: Burgess, Clark, Haskell, Kvesic, Robshaw, Wood
N8: Easter, Morgan, Vunipola
SH: Care, Dickson, Wigglesworth, Youngs
FH: Cipriani, Farrell, Ford, Myler, Slade
CT: Barritt, Burrell, Daly, Eastmond, Joseph, Twelvetrees
WG: Ashton, May, Nowell, Strettle, Watson, Yarde
FB: Brown, Goode

 

[McTallshort]

Burgess for Ewers is just plain wrong

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Burgess for Ewers is just plain wrong

Apparently Ewers and Wade may join at a later date.

 

[ncurd]

TBF I think Burgess is in there for the experience as he's learning at a phenomenal rate and could very well be in contention for a place within the 23 come the 6 nations. I'll be surprised if he'd selected for RWC squad same with Ewers, I suspect Kvesic will join Robshaw, Wood & Haskell assuming we drop 2 Flankers.

 

[Peat]

I genuinly think they have an obsession with Tom Croft and lineouts- Lanky can't stop going on about how he'll be fit in August and how he's a British Lion- I don't know what they see in the guy, especially having barely played all year. If all they care about in a blindside is aerial ability, then they may as well play Parling there.

Try and see it - he's very clearly rated incredibly highly by those in the game when you consider his history.

I like him, I really like him. His aerial ability is a fantastic asset, but so is his pace. Think back to the Lions and the tries he got because he had the pace to keep up with the breaks. He's probably the best support runner England have in the back row. He'll put in a shift if you ask him to, his breakdown work is underappreciated, and his ability to take the outside and beat most non-wingers can be game breaking. He's not an orthodox player, but he's very effective.

I also think he is the natural foil to Robshaw, who simply lacks the pace to do a core subset of openside roles. Croft offers that. Between them, they have everything but raw brutality in close quarters. It's a pretty significant miss, but all other combinations miss something as well.


This post was brought to you by the Crofty Propaganda Service.

 

[goodNumber10]

Lancaster said Ewers and Wade will play the Barbarians games and could come in after that dependent...

 

[TheSaffycen]

Players I'm upset not seeing there- Ewers for Clark and Waldron for Easter. Players I'm upset about are Clark, Strettle, Myler, Webber.

so in the front row - Mullan has a chance to outshine either Corbs or Mako but I think will fall short. Webber might turn up for England but if he doesn't then Hartley and Youngs might be joined by LCD but shame George wasn't included.
Second Row- we can pick anyone of Kruis, Parling, Attwood, Slater with Lawes and Bury and they will do a job.
Back Row- Robshaw, Vunipola, Morgan, Wood are all in barring injury. Kvesic, Itoje, Burgess, Clark, Easter are all in the running and I think Itoje will go as he can cover 6/5/4.
Scrum Half Wigglesworth, Youngs and I think Simpson will be included, more likely to be Care or Dickson though.
Fly Half- Farrell and Ford. I think Goode/Slade will be looked at for the 3rd Fly Half.
Centre's-Joseph is the only nailed on, Barritt will probably go, twelvetrees and Burrell will also but Daly can cover 13/14/15. Slade is also an option at 10/13 and he must be considered with his form. I'm going for Joseph, Barritt, Slade, Burrell.
Wings- I think Strettle and Ashton won't make it. They need more versatility so Nowell and Watson can cover 15 with nowell also at 13. May can cover 13/14/15 but so can Daly. Maybe Daly could get in at wing or Fullback.
Fullback - Brown if fit, then Goode. Maybe they will look at a non specialist In Daly or Watson.

 

[goodNumber10]

Try and see it - he's very clearly rated incredibly highly by those in the game when you consider his history.

I like him, I really like him. His aerial ability is a fantastic asset, but so is his pace. Think back to the Lions and the tries he got because he had the pace to keep up with the breaks. He's probably the best support runner England have in the back row. He'll put in a shift if you ask him to, his breakdown work is underappreciated, and his ability to take the outside and beat most non-wingers can be game breaking. He's not an orthodox player, but he's very effective.

I also think he is the natural foil to Robshaw, who simply lacks the pace to do a core subset of openside roles. Croft offers that. Between them, they have everything but raw brutality in close quarters. It's a pretty significant miss, but all other combinations miss something as well.


This post was brought to you by the Crofty Propaganda Service.

I agree with all of this.... but...... ball carriers!

 

[TheSaffycen]

Launchbury helps with supporting breaks. Croft is very under appreciated but I don't think that you can select someone who hasn't played in a long time and we have no idea how he can cope with a game every 5 days. In his prime he is in at 6 and Robshaw probably isn't selected and we have Kvesic or Woods there instead.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lancaster said Ewers and Wade will play the Barbarians games and could come in after that dependent...

I would be flabbergasted if they did - unless he just means they're next in line if there's an injury.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I would be flabbergasted if they did - unless he just means they're next in line if there's an injury.

What a shame it would be if Clark fell down the stairs. God awful shame ......

 

[goodNumber10]

What a shame it would be if Clark fell down the stairs. God awful shame ......

don't wish ill on people mate, no a good look.

people need to be in on merit not through others misfortune.

- - - Updated - - -

Lancaster on overseas:

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_50441,00.html

"The policy was put in place to protect the national team along with the long-term health of the English game and it's one I've consistenly supported," said Lancaster.

"It's supported by the clubs and the RPA and it's the same policy that New Zealand have. It's important.

"We want to see English players playing for English clubs against each other. There's about 30 of our squad in action in this weekend's Premiership semi-finals. It's part of our responsibility to protect that short-term and long-term.

"If we had changed this policy we would have feared more and more players going to France. Where does that leave you if more and more go? We believe that the dedication and commitment of our players would change if we picked overseas players."

"It's been a difficult decision but it's the right one long-term."

When asked whether Armitage should have been included on the merit of his top form, Lancaster was quick to praise the players selected.

"The quality of the players we've got is very strong in the back row," added Lancaster.

"We've picked eight very good players with a lot of experience, some younger lads too but guys like Calum Clark and Matt Kvesic deserve their chance. Dave Ewers also was very unlucky not to make the 50.

"Like I've said, the policy is there to protect the national team and long-term health of the English game."

 

[yaboyjj]

Launchbury helps with supporting breaks. Croft is very under appreciated but I don't think that you can select someone who hasn't played in a long time and we have no idea how he can cope with a game every 5 days. In his prime he is in at 6 and Robshaw probably isn't selected and we have Kvesic or Woods there instead.

Croft and.... Wood
*shudder*
It would probably work on the 7's circuit... I guess

*edit- I do think (certainly in his prime) Croft is a good player and in a well balanced pack can really look the goods, it's just the fact he's barely played in 2 years doesn't really merit the amount of noise made about his return 2 MONTHS before the tournament (btw I'm skeptical about Morgans return to fitness too after no game time since January- I hope I'm wrong though)

Mind you I think from the 50 man squad you could put together a couple of pretty good teams.
I'm not sure if it was just me, but on the weekend Corbs looked a bit more like his old self and actually held his own in the scrum for most of the game against Cole (not helped by his TH)- good signs? Anywhere close to his Lions form and he'd be a shoe in for the starting LH spot (pls make it so).

Cole
Youngs
2013 Corbs
Launch
Lawes
Itoje
Robshaw
Vunipola
Youngs
Nowell
Slade
Joseph
May
Brown

LCD
Vunipola
Wilson
Slater
Morgan
Simpson
Fazlet
Watson

 

[Peat]

I agree with all of this.... but...... ball carriers!

Went out the window when they selected this squad? I share your concern but out of the guys realistically in contention... Haskell? Wood and Clark certainly aren't major ball carriers. Itoje maybe? Burgess probably isn't ready, Ewers isn't there...

I'd like to take this opportunity to start the Mako for One platform, because we won't be selecting ball carriers anywhere else!

Launchbury helps with supporting breaks. Croft is very under appreciated but I don't think that you can select someone who hasn't played in a long time and we have no idea how he can cope with a game every 5 days. In his prime he is in at 6 and Robshaw probably isn't selected and we have Kvesic or Woods there instead.

You may think that, but Stuart "What's that Tom? You've finally done 80 minutes after a year out with a broken neck? Want to play some international rugby?" Lancaster clearly thinks differently.

I have to admit his injuries makes me a little wary of his inclusion but if he's fit enough to get some warm-up game time, I'd be interested providing the doctors were saying "Probably won't break until three games after he gets back to Leicester as normal".

edit: Launchbury has fantastic work rate, pace and vision for a lock, but he is still a guy playing lock, where as Croft is winger quick with less pushing to do.

 

[yaboyjj]

Went out the window when they selected this squad? I share your concern but out of the guys realistically in contention... Haskell? Wood and Clark certainly aren't major ball carriers. Itoje maybe? Burgess probably isn't ready, Ewers isn't there...

I'd like to take this opportunity to start the Mako for One platform, because we won't be selecting ball carriers anywhere else!



You may think that, but Stuart "What's that Tom? You've finally done 80 minutes after a year out with a broken neck? Want to play some international rugby?" Lancaster clearly thinks differently.

I have to admit his injuries makes me a little wary of his inclusion but if he's fit enough to get some warm-up game time, I'd be interested providing the doctors were saying "Probably won't break until three games after he gets back to Leicester as normal".

edit: Launchbury has fantastic work rate, pace and vision for a lock, but he is still a guy playing lock, where as Croft is winger quick with less pushing to do.

What with Gibson and Salvi off, I'd almost forgotten Croft plays for Leicester! an injury free season would be a big boon for them.
Unless he went to the whacky racers and played Morgan and Vunipola together- then the best carrying back row would be Robshaw, Vunipola and either Haskell or Itoje (probably Haskell edges is as he tends to get his hands on the ball more often)

 

[TheSaffycen]

don't wish ill on people mate, no a good look.

people need to be in on merit not through others misfortune.

- - - Updated - - -

Lancaster on overseas:

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_50441,00.html

I'm obviously not wanting him too fall down the stairs. I nice push from Hawkins would be more poetic.....

 

[LiRFCMatt]

What do you guys think are Itoje's chances of actually starting? It is something I'd love to see but I'm not sure it's gonna happen.