[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[Peat]

Some said he didn't direct the defence, sorry but since when was it the role of 12 to make sure everyone else is doing their job?

Since forever? Every unit has a leader, because it creates better units, and Lancaster has vastly favoured having his defensive leader at 12; not always, but usually. A defensive leader is just as responsible for other players as a scrum-half is for directing his forward runners.

Rugby is about combining players to to become as strong as possible in all areas while minimising weakness. That means a defensive leader at 12 with Tuilagi at 13 and a strong runner comfortable in traffic at 12 with Joseph at 13 most of the times. Eastmond, talented as he is, is unfortunate enough to be neither. A prime Mike Tindall, or a JdV-esque player at 13, and he'd look very viable.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Since forever? Every unit has a leader, because it creates better units, and Lancaster has vastly favoured having his defensive leader at 12; not always, but usually. A defensive leader is just as responsible for other players as a scrum-half is for directing his forward runners.

Rugby is about combining players to to become as strong as possible in all areas while minimising weakness. That means a defensive leader at 12 with Tuilagi at 13 and a strong runner comfortable in traffic at 12 with Joseph at 13 most of the times. Eastmond, talented as he is, is unfortunate enough to be neither. A prime Mike Tindall, or a JdV-esque player at 13, and he'd look very viable.

There is a difference between a leader and a micromanager. It is NOT the duty of a 12 to make sure everyone else is doing what they are supposed to already know how to do in defence. If a player outside the 12 is in the wrong position that is primarily the fault of that player and not the 12. If a player 2 players out from the 12 doesn't do it in defence, that definitely isn't the fault of the 12. Yet in the NZ game Eastmond was blamed for Tuilagi being out of position, Eastmond was blamed for the winger facing a 3 on 1 overlap, Eastmond was blamed for another player deciding to double up on a tackle that wasn't necessary. In essence he was blamed for every failing England had in defence whether it was his fault or not. If Eastmond is so bad at 12, why have Bath not had serious issues in midfield? Fact is he is a scaepgoat and was blamed for other players errors. If the 13 is out of position the first question should be "why does he not know where he is supposed to be?" not "why isn't the small guy at 12 holding his hand and telling him everything he is apparently to thick to work out for himself". If a 13 isn't capable of working out where to stand without constant guidance they should not be in the squad, it shows a complete inability to read a game or make independent decisions. I'm not a fan of making players unaccountable for their own actions.

 

[Peat]

Primarily the fault =/= solely the fault.

A leader is partially responsible for the mistakes of the guys he's leading, that's just life. He's carrying the can for the collective responsibility. And yes, a good defensive leader often is a micromanager actually, always talking, always with an eye on his other guys, always keeping them organised. You can go back to the 70s and you find that, Geech's autobiography has a bit in which he talks about how good it was to play next to one of his centre partners who was always with the chat to make sure his defensive partners came up with him as a unit. That didn't happen, Eastmond was the leader, he gets a portion of fault for that. I mean, ancaster isn't a complete idiot, and he didn't bring him off at half-time because he wanted Eastmond's advice when going shoe shopping on Amazon in the second half.... and that coming for a guy who rates him enough to bring him back into the team next Autumn.

And Bath have their defensive leader at 13. Which would be a great option for England if we really wanted Eastmond in but that raises its own problems which I think I've referred to pretty recently.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Oh right, well I can't argue with that logic. Strong case to be made he has a fair worse history than Manu.

...bit of an understatement.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Anyone angry at Clark should also feel the same about Tulagis assault on Chris Ashton. Both acts are the same. In fact Tulagi could have killed Ashton so should that not be seen as worse?

Fact is a rugby player should be judged by us on their talent. Clark has been playing very well but he plays the 7 role which is filled by robshaw and a good back up in kvesic. That's the truth of it

 

[Patchey]

Anyone angry at Clark should also feel the same about Tulagis assault on Chris Ashton. Both acts are the same. In fact Tulagi could have killed Ashton so should that not be seen as worse?

Sorry mate, but that just is not true.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Anyone angry at Clark should also feel the same about Tulagis assault on Chris Ashton. Both acts are the same. In fact Tulagi could have killed Ashton so should that not be seen as worse?

What?

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Anyone angry at Clark should also feel the same about Tulagis assault on Chris Ashton. Both acts are the same. In fact Tulagi could have killed Ashton so should that not be seen as worse?

Fact is a rugby player should be judged by us on their talent. Clark has been playing very well but he plays the 7 role which is filled by robshaw and a good back up in kvesic. That's the truth of it

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/lquu2"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/lquu2.jpg" ***le="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

 

[Maverick1987]

Anyone angry at Clark should also feel the same about Tulagis assault on Chris Ashton. Both acts are the same. In fact Tulagi could have killed Ashton so should that not be seen as worse?

Fact is a rugby player should be judged by us on their talent. Clark has been playing very well but he plays the 7 role which is filled by robshaw and a good back up in kvesic. That's the truth of it

My immediate thought when you posted this is your 16 and the pressure of your GCSE exams are making you say stupid things .....

Manu pushed a police officer and kicked a wing mirror then showed huge remorse for losing his head . Clarke broke someone's arm and only really cared that Saints didn't win the trophy ....

 

[Crapspray]

Anyone angry at Clark should also feel the same about Tulagis assault on Chris Ashton. Both acts are the same. In fact Tulagi could have killed Ashton so should that not be seen as worse?

Looking at Clark's charge sheet, the one most like Ashton-punching would probably be when he was red-carded for headbutting in a JWC final. The main differences being Clark was unprovoked and was warned for headbutting once prior to being sent off. Oh and he was captaining his side. In a final.

So throw breaking someone's arm on top and we've got someone with a worse record. Not to mention Tuilagi is banned for something off the pitch, whereas all of Clark's major offences were on the pitch.

The saying "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity" applies. Tuilagi was an idiot; Clark was a malicious ****.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't do nuffin, precious little lamb!

The fact that Simpson is trying to stop him from smacking the guy in the first clip, and that Clarke laughs when walking from the pitch after his red....

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Didn't do nuffin, precious little lamb!

The fact that Simpson is trying to stop him from smacking the guy in the first clip, and that Clarke laughs when walking from the pitch after his red....

I struggled to focus on anything after seeing Simpson with hair. Although even back then it was vanishing fast.

Also Corbs looking a little Bieber-esque there...

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Also, for those interested, the poll on the blog has these results so far:

Jonathan Joseph & Luther Burrell 1 (1%)

Jonathan Joseph & Kyle Eastmond 13 (23%)

Jonathan Joseph & Henry Slade 19 (33%)

Jonathan Joseph & Owen Farrell 8 (14%)

Jonathan Joseph & Brad Barritt 14 (25%)

Elliot Daly & Owen Farrell 0 (0%)

Elliot Daly & Henry Slade 0 (0%)

Other 1 (1%)

 

[Patchey]

With the announcement imminent, the Torygraph's live blog has hinted Strettle might be recalled as well.

:0

 

[yaboyjj]

With the announcement imminent, the Torygraph's live blog has hinted Strettle might be recalled as well.

:0

pls no, Ashton was bad enough- picking this many mediocre players makes a mockery or an 'elite' squad

 

[goodNumber10]

it's live on here if you want to watch it:

https://www.periscope.tv/w/Vz2bkDUwMzE3NXwxMjcwNTk4OEP5plM5_9mmphIswa4WsfKyXunA35nDoB3stI_DguM8

- - - Updated - - -

Squad:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">England have announced their extended training squad for the <a href="https://twitter.com/rugbyworldcup">@rugbyworldcup</a> <a href="http://t.co/hLu0O7Kf06">http://t.co/hLu0O7Kf06</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RWC2015?src=hash">#RWC2015</a> <a href="http://t.co/i4mOywRwOO">pic.twitter.com/i4mOywRwOO</a></p>&mdash; England Rugby (@EnglandRugby) <a href="https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/600978803377111041">May 20, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

- - - Updated - - -

Squad: Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-announce-rugby-world-cup-training-group/

 

[Patchey]

Strettle, Ashton, Lee Dickson all in and very lucky.

Croft, Foden and Simpson may have a chance to join the squad depending on injury.

Lancaster has said Cips, Daly, Yarde will all play v the BaBaas and that Ewers and Wade will also have a chance.

Can't watch the conference at work. Have they said where Burgess will be considered?

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I did say Calum Clark would be in... However disappointing it is.

 

[goodNumber10]

Strettle, Ashton, Lee Dickson all in and very lucky.

Croft, Foden and Simpson may have a chance to join the squad depending on injury.

Lancaster has said Cips, Daly, Yarde will all play v the BaBaas and that Ewers and Wade will also have a chance.

Can't watch the conference at work. Have they said where Burgess will be considered?

not yet, they have focused on Armitage and Tuilagi

*Edit: undecided, he's in a unique position.

**EDIT: Rowntree on Itjoe, massive praise, Lancaster on Brown head injury concerns - they are happy he'll be ok for the world cup.

 

[Patchey]

not yet, they have focused on Armitage and Tuilagi

Bet that's a barrel of laughs for Stu!