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[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

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http://rugbylaw.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/calum-clark-citing-decision.html?m=1

Good info on the incident.
Thanks. Rob Hawkins does still play, for falcons now, though some might consider that career ending...
 
Thanks. Rob Hawkins does still play, for falcons now, though some might consider that career ending...

At the time he was in the England Saxons pushing Tom Youngs (at the time) for the starting shirt at Leicester , But Was never the same after unfortunately.
 
being devils advocate here, would you employ someone who'd been done for ABH and paid his dues?

If I believed the man was unlikely to reoffend and had moved beyond such behaviour, if he is a reforming character who wants to be reformed, yes BUT Clark should have been done for GBH, didn't pay his dues, and I am not the RFU looking to employ players to to represent this country at the highest level of the sport. I believe there is sufficient difference that the two can't be seen as properly comparable.

So looking at Clark's position -

The GBH is a difference included for the sake of completeness. Wouldn't change my perceptions that much.

Would my opinion be different if he had paid his dues? Yes, although full payment of his dues means he arguably shouldn't be back in professional rugby yet. It's arguably not fair that I hold this opinion, but is what it is. Still, let us imagine he had paid in full and was available.

There is an argument to whether selection for the England team should solely be efficacy or whether it should also reflected the privileged, responsible position in the public eye they hold. If it is the latter, then yes, I think Clark should be barred unless there's been a significant punishment question. I have to admit, I am somewhat biased against Clark by the fact that Lancaster has publicly nailed his colours to the latter position, but still includes Clark in squads, which I find disgraceful hypocrisy. Again, that's probably not fair, it's not his fault, but it increases my sense that he should not be in the squad.

At the moment, Clark hasn't paid his dues and neither has he shown any remorse, which makes me question whether he's a reformed character. If he'd paid his dues, if he'd shown genuine remorse and the rest of it, then yes, I think he should be considered for a chance of redemption. But there hasn't been and never will.
 
At the time he was in the England Saxons pushing Tom Youngs (at the time) for the starting shirt at Leicester , But Was never the same after unfortunately.
He must have been out for a fair bite with injury, apart from anything else. I've always previously doubted accounts of the incident due to them seeming slightly hysterical- the link was a little (thanks anyway)- but it does seem that it would have been unnatural not to be disgusted by the whole thing going just by the facts. As it stands, I do now think that the disciplinary process failed and Clark should have been banned for longer. Anyway, it's pretty thankless to discuss and moot now.
 
At the time he was in the England Saxons pushing Tom Youngs (at the time) for the starting shirt at Leicester , But Was never the same after unfortunately.
It was only really due to Tigers that it didn't end his career, from what I recall.
He hadn't signed a contract, but had a "verbal" contract with Cockers that they'd sort it after the final. He got injured, and it was obvious it would be a long lay off, but Tigers went through with the deal anyway as they'd told him they'd re-sign him. I imaigne he'd have called it a day if Tigers hadn't re-signed him (I doubt any other side would have signed him considering he was facing surgery and a long lay off, with no guarantee of a full recovery).
 
It was only really due to Tigers that it didn't end his career, from what I recall.
He hadn't signed a contract, but had a "verbal" contract with Cockers that they'd sort it after the final. He got injured, and it was obvious it would be a long lay off, but Tigers went through with the deal anyway as they'd told him they'd re-sign him. I imaigne he'd have called it a day if Tigers hadn't re-signed him (I doubt any other side would have signed him considering he was facing surgery and a long lay off, with no guarantee of a full recovery).
that's pretty good of Cockers tbf

RE Clarke, must remember that he's always been a favourite of Lancasters and was earmarked from a young age by him as an international (prodigal son and all that), it does seem strange that he's often held a squad place over Kvesic, yet hasn't been capped yet IIRC.
I want Launch, Lawes, Parling, Attwood, Slater, Clifford (covers whole back row), Itoje, Ewers, Haskell, Robshaw, Kvesic, Vunipola, Morgan
 
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Can't really add much that hasn't been said about Clark regarding his ban...

From a purely rugby POV, the great stand out quality that the England coaches seem to talk about is his fitness. That is great, being fit can be the difference between winning and losing in international rugby. But there is no good being fit enough to get to a breakdown or in a position to make a covering tackle late in the game if you're actual skill set isn't up to it. As Peat said, little solid evidence that Clark has the skills of an international back row forward.

Considering that in the time he's been in the squad (both the EPS and when he's been retain during match day week) Kvesic, Clifford, Ewers, Itoje, Thomas (the Glos lad) could all have been, at very least, getting some experience in his place, I'm really not a fan...
 
Can't really add much that hasn't been said about Clark regarding his ban...

From a purely rugby POV, the great stand out quality that the England coaches seem to talk about is his fitness. That is great, being fit can be the difference between winning and losing in international rugby. But there is no good being fit enough to get to a breakdown or in a position to make a covering tackle late in the game if you're actual skill set isn't up to it. As Peat said, little solid evidence that Clark has the skills of an international back row forward.

Considering that in the time he's been in the squad (both the EPS and when he's been retain during match day week) Kvesic, Clifford, Ewers, Itoje, Thomas (the Glos lad) could all have been, at very least, getting some experience in his place, I'm really not a fan...
Well, he must be doing something right to be regarded as the best player at Saints by the players and supporters, though it's true that great club players aren't necessarily good international players.
If I've got anything against Lancaster's involvement of Clark, it's that he has never been used, despite being ever present, with many players seeming to hop over him in the pecking order, e.g. Kvesic in Argentina. He's not even played for the Saxons iirc. It beggars belief.
 
Does anyone know what time the squad announcement is?
I have a feeling Ewers is indeed going to be the one to miss out- and I thinks it's the lineout option that is the reason (hence why Itoje is likely to get the nod over him), tbh I can't see any of the 'established' player missing out either.
 
Midday.

Manchester evening news reporting Beaumont and Taylor in the Baabaas squad and Cipriani in the EPS.
 
Midday.

Manchester evening news reporting Beaumont and Taylor in the Baabaas squad and Cipriani in the EPS.
Thanks,
That's also interesting RE Taylor- I wonder if we can read into this as LCD moving up into the eps (thus releasing the hooker spot in the Saxons)- I wonder where George fits into this too (for some reason I don't think Rowntree rates him).
 
Telegraph reporting online that Ashton has been recalled.

LCD, Itoje, Cips, Easter, Nowell, Goode, Brown all mentioned. Among others.
 
Telegraph reporting online that Ashton has been recalled.

LCD, Itoje, Cips, Easter, Nowell, Goode, Brown all mentioned. Among others.

bleugh, I guess he takes the third right wing spot behind Watson and May- probably at the expense of Wade and possibly Roko. Nowell and Yarde for the Left wing spots. There is always the anticipation with Ashton that he will re-discover his 2010-12 international form, and that his tries only dried up because of Farrell and Tuilagi not distributing properly... I think he's had his last chance (last summer- and that thrid test went swimmingly well from what I remember :rolleyes:).
I'm not keen on Easter in the squad if it's above Ewers, because it's clear that he won't make the final cut (assuming Morgan is back)- at least take a gamble on someone who might.
 
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Ashton's hot streak came outside such legendary distributing centres such as Shontayne Hape, Mike "Hands" Tindall, and Matt "Next Dan Carter" Banahan. Ashton's tries were never about waiting for the centres to pass him the ball.
 
Clark is a **** and doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the England squad, it is not up for debate as far as I'm concerned.

WRT Eastmond, he isn't bad in defence in that he will make the tackle, it's that he can't drive someone back in defence or prevent and offload. His kicking may not be great but he did a fantastic kick against Glos and his running and passing threat are second to none in the premiership. He's been made a scapegoat for our defeats to NZ, even blamed for another player being out of position. It is ridiculous, it seems being small in rugby makes you the target of criticism if another player decides independently to overcompensate for you. It's pathetic. If HE missed the tackles then fine, if another player is out of position and they get through elsewhere, that is not Eastmonds fault. Some said he didn't direct the defence, sorry but since when was it the role of 12 to make sure everyone else is doing their job? If they aren't capable of realising where they have to be defencively without someone else telling them, they shouldn't be in the squad. I think he deserves a second chance at the very least.
 
Ashton's hot streak came outside such legendary distributing centres such as Shontayne Hape, Mike "Hands" Tindall, and Matt "Next Dan Carter" Banahan. Ashton's tries were never about waiting for the centres to pass him the ball.

Yeah, I was trying to highlight the fact that that was probably not the reason for his dip in form- he's had his time and doesn't bring anything to the table that Wade or Roko wouldn't anymore (I reckon Wade is actually one of the best support runners in the prem and is often coming infield making things happen/distributing well). I'd have though Lancaster would have learnt by now that his good prem form =/= international form. I'd rather he took a punt on Lewington or Purdy tbh
 
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Ashton's hot streak came outside such legendary distributing centres such as Shontayne Hape, Mike "Hands" Tindall, and Matt "Next Dan Carter" Banahan. Ashton's tries were never about waiting for the centres to pass him the ball.

These nicknames are now required when the above player are mentioned from now on.

Law.
 
Clark isn't ****, what a ridiculous comment. He might not be international class but it's not ridiculous he is being spoken about as he has had an excellent year and his work rate and physicality are up there with virtually anyone in the country at 6/7. He also isn't bad at the breakdown either.
 
Clark isn't ****, what a ridiculous comment. He might not be international class but it's not ridiculous he is being spoken about as he has had an excellent year and his work rate and physicality are up there with virtually anyone in the country at 6/7. He also isn't bad at the breakdown either.

You seem to be confusing which expletive I'm using, Clark is a word for a females fun area starting and ending with a t.
 
You seem to be confusing which expletive I'm using, Clark is a word for a females fun area starting and ending with a t.

Oh right, well I can't argue with that logic. Strong case to be made he has a fair worse history than Manu.
 
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