[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[TheSaffycen]

In the backrow I would have
Blindside-Ewers, Itoje, Burgess
Openside-Robshaw, Kvesic, Haskell
Number 8-Morgan, Vunipola, Waldrom

 

[Every Time Ref]

I like the look of Slade a lot, but the fact is if you're picking an international inside centre, then surely the fact that he has never played international rugby and hasn't played inside centre all season counts him out? I wouldn't be surprised or upset to see him in the squad for the World Cup, but I think the idea that he's the best option at 12 is seriously misguided.

It's Barritt for me, although I am coming round to the idea of picking the Bath midfield en masse. Sure, Eastmond's defence is shaky, so is Burrell's, so is Twelvetrees' and so is Barritt's attack. Whoever you pick, you're losing out on something in a big way, do you chose attack or defence? I'm saying Barritt simply because it's for the World Cup, otherwise I'd be backing Eastmond right now.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I like the look of Slade a lot, but the fact is if you're picking an international inside centre, then surely the fact that he has never played international rugby and hasn't played inside centre all season counts him out? I wouldn't be surprised or upset to see him in the squad for the World Cup, but I think the idea that he's the best option at 12 is seriously misguided.

It's Barritt for me, although I am coming round to the idea of picking the Bath midfield en masse. Sure, Eastmond's defence is shaky, so is Burrell's, so is Twelvetrees' and so is Barritt's attack. Whoever you pick, you're losing out on something in a big way, do you chose attack or defence? I'm saying Barritt simply because it's for the World Cup, otherwise I'd be backing Eastmond right now.

The prospect of a Bath 10, 12, 13 combo is pretty awesome, and I agree Slade is inexperienced right now, which is why I personally opted for Barritt at 12, JJ outside. But Slade brings a kicking game that Eastmond doesn't, and that makes him very appealing. Test him out in a warm up game and see how he handles it is my suggestion.

- - - Updated - - -

And no love for Calum Clark from anyone?

 

[Peat]

Ford-Eastmond-Joseph puts a serious strain on the forwards and wingers to provide go forwards and break set defences - and I don't think they've really shown great work in this field to begin with. I accept we're going to put out a pairing with flaws somewhere but "ice breaking" is already a flaw for us. We'd have to really select around that to make it work.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Talk that Taits deal might fallen through with Bayonne and Leicester are looking at keeping him.

Could be a long shot he has been Leicester best back @ 15 and 13 by some distance (not hard I guess) but IMO could be worth a look.

Might be in the minority but I prefer him to Goode TBH.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And no love for Calum Clark from anyone?

He's scum, no one wants him in an England shirt.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

He's scum, no one wants him in an England shirt.

Tbh, I wouldn't mind him playing. He's put a lot of work into putting his actions behind him and if he was the best option, I wouldn't hesitate to play him. He's served his ban, he's had a very good record since- wayyy better than Dylan Hartley's or Haskell's, say. I think it would be unfair not to consider him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He purposefully snapped another player's arm.
No thanks.

 

[Peat]

Trying to put aside my antipathy to a man who deliberately assaulted another professional, lied at the tribunal and allegedly never actually apologised - he lacks international experience, doesn't have a long future and at no point has shown the attributes that might make you think "Top level international". He might be better than Wood or Haskell - but then, he might not. It would be a gamble at best and for a player who wouldn't bring anything new or unique to the table. I know I'm being conservative here but I don't hugely see the appeal.

But then, I do think he have gone to jail, so I'm possibly a little biased.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Trying to put aside my antipathy to a man who deliberately assaulted another professional, lied at the tribunal and allegedly never actually apologised - he lacks international experience, doesn't have a long future and at no point has shown the attributes that might make you think "Top level international". He might be better than Wood or Haskell - but then, he might not. It would be a gamble at best and for a player who wouldn't bring anything new or unique to the table. I know I'm being conservative here but I don't hugely see the appeal.

But then, I do think he have gone to jail, so I'm possibly a little biased.

And he's the son of my old head teacher, so a little bias may also be present over here!
I also hadn't heard all of that, does make it seem worse than it first appears. I do wonder how the situation compares to Tuilagi, where people were debating whether he should play for England again at the next possible chance, or if he should receive a ban on top of his fine et al, whereas some people on here advocate just a lifetime ban from England for Clark.
Idk, I feel that if he's served his ban and is the best available player, then he should play (as it happens, I don't think that he's the best available player anyway). Well, Stuart Lancaster agrees with me anyway!

 

[goodNumber10]

He purposefully snapped another player's arm.
No thanks.

being devils advocate here, would you employ someone who'd been done for ABH and paid his dues?

 

[Every Time Ref]

being devils advocate here, would you employ someone who'd been done for ABH and paid his dues?

Clark hasn't paid his dues. I agree with @Peat, I think he should have gone to prison for it.

I feel so strongly against Clark, in fact that I broke my habit of a lifetime to rep his post for the first time ever

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wouldn't it actually be GBH?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

being devils advocate here, would you employ someone who'd been done for ABH and paid his dues?

I think I would, though I've never been in the situation.

It's interesting that people believe that he hasn't been adequately punished- I didn't really follow rugby at the time, so haven't formed much of an opinion on the incident. Is there any particular reason why people think the punishment was not proportionate to the crime- just emotive opinion, or was it reduced for some reason?

 

[Peat]

Wouldn't it actually be GBH?

My attempts to google prison sentences for breaking other people's arms does indicates it would be GBH, yup.


He hasn't even paid his dues in a rugby sense.

I think I would, though I've never been in the situation.

It's interesting that people believe that he hasn't been adequately punished- I didn't really follow rugby at the time, so haven't formed much of an opinion on the incident. Is there any particular reason why people think the punishment was not proportionate to the crime- just emotive opinion, or was it reduced for some reason?

His ban was heavily reduced for a number of reasons, including previous good behaviour and remorse.

Previous good behaviour - he was sent off and banned for a red card in the JWC final but the tribunal decided to discount them after being told he had been 17 years ago at the time. I don't think there's ever been a player that young in a JWC final and if there was, it wasn't Calum Clark.

Remorse - widely reported by Leicester fans that somehow Hawkins never received the apology that Clark said he had made.

So, one was a definite mistruth and almost definite lie, the other was probably a lie.

 

[goodNumber10]

Wouldn't it actually be GBH?

perhaps

 

[Every Time Ref]

The prospect of a Bath 10, 12, 13 combo is pretty awesome, and I agree Slade is inexperienced right now, which is why I personally opted for Barritt at 12, JJ outside. But Slade brings a kicking game that Eastmond doesn't, and that makes him very appealing. Test him out in a warm up game and see how he handles it is my suggestion.

The trouble is there are a lot of centre combinations which have not yet been tested which would need testing in a warm up game if SL was considering them for the world cup. How many warm up games are there, 2 I think? I can certainly think of two untried centre combinations I would put ahead of Slade-Joseph as priorities to experiment with.

It's ridiculous that we are talking about testing out brand new combinations in the two internationals before the WC though.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think I would, though I've never been in the situation.

It's interesting that people believe that he hasn't been adequately punished- I didn't really follow rugby at the time, so haven't formed much of an opinion on the incident. Is there any particular reason why people think the punishment was not proportionate to the crime- just emotive opinion, or was it reduced for some reason?

it was a shocking calculated act of violence on a prone defenseless player in an already dangerous game - iirc it ended his career.

I think there is a sense that he should have been prosecuted outside of the game, and if that had happened he could have been looking at a jail sentence for ABH/GBH.

However, many people perform wanton acts of thuggery and go on to live a good life, people have to be allowed to atone for their actions - i'm not advocating he has, or that he should be selected. Just putting it out there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

My attempts to google prison sentences for breaking other people's arms does indicates it would be GBH, yup.

If it was say GBH then it would have to include a prison sentence wouldn't it?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think I would, though I've never been in the situation.

It's interesting that people believe that he hasn't been adequately punished- I didn't really follow rugby at the time, so haven't formed much of an opinion on the incident. Is there any particular reason why people think the punishment was not proportionate to the crime- just emotive opinion, or was it reduced for some reason?

http://rugbylaw.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/calum-clark-citing-decision.html?m=1

Good info on the incident.