[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Assault by beating also covers pushing though.

Also where is planet rugby article that says punch?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't you have problems of this kind in 2011? wasn't that the reason why Jonny took the exit?

No, and no

 

[Peat]

I think it's more the mentality Lancaster wants to promote which is no tolerance for any stupid stuff by any players on or off the pitch. He looks at more than just the coaching, he is trying to also foster a team that are good role models and that English fans can be proud to follow. I think he has done a fantastic job with that, I don't think England have been this popular both inside and outside England for years. A fair few of Englands traditional rivals (French, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Australians, South Africans and New Zealanders) have started to begrudingly admit there isn't much to dislike about England any more, except for the fact they are English.

And what's got to do with the team on the pitch? Besides, Lancaster's been pretty awful in terms of not tolerating stupid stuff ever since Danny Care.

I mean, he agree he's done a great job of making the England team popular, but that's not what I'm on about at all. I agree there are PR arguments and moral arguments for doing it. What I want to establish is if anyone has an actual rugby argument, and I'm not sure Lancaster has been consistent enough on promoting discipline for that to be a sure answer (paging Dylan Hartley...)

 

[goodNumber10]

People are saying that allowing people who have been indisciplined out of camp into camp without punishment will create further indiscipline. But that never hurt Wales' performance with Philips. Or Savea with New Zealand. Or probably no end of other sporting environments. England's 2011 WC isn't a like-for-like comparison, as they were all in camp problems, and Tuilagi's done this out of camp.

It would be foolish to say there's no link between indiscipline and poor performance, but it doesn't automatically follow. Which is what I'm solely getting at here. Strong management can and will establish a break between disruptive behaviour outside the environment and performance within.

So I'm not seeing any benefit to the England rugby team's performance here and now. In return we give up one of our best players at a supposedly critical juncture. That strikes me as a very poor trade. We have basically sacrificed one of our best players for the Moral and PR good of the England rugby as a whole, insofar as I can see, and that might be a good thing but it's an entirely separate argument from the one I'm pursuing. In any case, Tommi has a point that not every nation would do this - we are being different. And maybe that's good, and maybe that's not, but either way that definitely seems to be the way it is.

Phillips was suspended, no?

Zac Guilford misbehaved on his own time and NZ tore up his contract. Norm Hewitt the same.

Other countries have also suspended people who misbehaved on their own time.

The point is that a precedence s set with Danny Care and Lancaster has stuck to it all the way through... Hard to criticise a bloke for being fair.

IMHO of course.

 

[chippieolamus]

Tuilagi is and always has been a thug. I'm gutted he won't be going to the RWC though, as he poses little danger to teams that have a decent defense.

You seem a reasonable poster, until you comment on something about England. That seems to be when the 'I'm Welsh must hate England and all of its players' mindset comes in. Tuilagi clearly poses a threat to any team, having been awesome in the first test in NZ in the summer and vs NZ in 2012 when we won (admittedly Nova virus etc.). I'm sure there are more examples just can't think of them atm, but to say 'he poses little danger to teams that have a decent defense' is frankly absurd.

 

[Peat]

Phillips was suspended, no?

Zac Guilford misbehaved on his own time and NZ tore up his contract. Norm Hewitt the same.

Other countries have also suspended people who misbehaved on their own time.

The point is that a precedence s set with Danny Care and Lancaster has stuck to it all the way through... Hard to criticise a bloke for being fair.

IMHO of course.

Mike Phillips was suspended 'indefinitely' on 17th June, 2011 but next played for Wales on the 6th August that year and started most of the World Cup games. When sacked by Bayonne for his behaviour, Wales played him during the next window. So... yeah, Wales seem quite content to have him in the squad despite his misbehaviour.

Guildford was accused of 'drunken naked assaults' on 11th November, 2011. Next international window, June 2012, he starts two tests against Ireland. Yes, eventually his misconduct got himself chucked out, but unless I'm mistaken, that's more to do with continuous alcoholism and that isn't really comparable with the situation. The most directly comparable thing from NZ would be Savea, and he played next window as well.

So, no, I'm not seeing any suspensions like Tuilagi's. This still seems to be a thing that only we would do. I'm not criticizing, merely correcting what seem to be factual inaccuracies about what's happening here.

 

[TheSaffycen]

So, no, I'm not seeing any suspensions like Tuilagi's. This still seems to be a thing that only we would do. I'm not criticizing, merely correcting what seem to be factual inaccuracies about what's happening here.

Care was banned for drink driving, missing the 6 nations. What other countries do doesn't really matter, the precedent for this has been set by Lancaster and he has shown that it doesn't matter who you are there is a standard off the pitch too adhere to.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Care was banned for drink driving, missing the 6 nations. What other countries do doesn't really matter, the precedent for this has been set by Lancaster and he has shown that it doesn't matter who you are there is a standard off the pitch too adhere to.

And rightly so.

 

[TommiG88]

Didn't quade cooper get done for burglary and still play for aus? I'm just saying. I don't condone violence of any kind however I feel the RFU are being over the top.

And I don't want see Burrell, twelvetrees or Barritt in the 12 shirt.

Or Farrell

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

England's 2016 6N back row

6) Clarke
7) S.Armitage
8) Manu

 

[Patchey]

Oh my, I've just realised this means we'll have Burgess at 12.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Didn't quade cooper get done for burglary and still play for aus? I'm just saying. I don't condone violence of any kind however I feel the RFU are being over the top.

And I don't want see Burrell, twelvetrees or Barritt in the 12 shirt.

Or Farrell

Slade?

 

[91jmay]

Knowing SL Nowell will be penciled in :lol:

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can't see Slade playing there - his performances at 10 and 13 suggest he'd do at least as well as Burrell/36, but he's not playing/played there for his club, so can't see Lancs going for it - not as a starter anyway.

Farrell, on the other hand, i can really see happening.
With a Burrell/Goode 22/23 - God help us all.

 

[yaboyjj]

I can't see Slade playing there - his performances at 10 and 13 suggest he'd do at least as well as Burrell/36, but he's not playing/played there for his club, so can't see Lancs going for it - not as a starter anyway.

Farrell, on the other hand, i can really see happening.
With a Burrell/Goode 22/23 - God help us all.

Hows about Wood, Wiggleworth, Burrell, Goode as a 20,21,22,23 quartet to add some dynamism late in the game- real momentum changers there :lol:

 

[Peat]

I can't see Slade playing there - his performances at 10 and 13 suggest he'd do at least as well as Burrell/36, but he's not playing/played there for his club, so can't see Lancs going for it - not as a starter anyway.

Farrell, on the other hand, i can really see happening.
With a Burrell/Goode 22/23 - God help us all.

Lancaster goes for out of position backs fairly regularly mind.

 

[Tony Manx]

A friend of mine did the same thing when he had had too much to drink and went down for it! He accepts that he should not have done it and accepted his punishment.

Tuilagi was lucky, very lucky and no, England do not need him nor should they take him to the RWC.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lancaster goes for out of position backs fairly regularly mind.

Fair point!

 

[barkinghooker]

Could you imagine if it was a soccer player for England ? The fans would give those coppers and cabby hell for the rest of their lives!

How about England give Manu 200 hours 'community service' to help him rebuild his image instead of just not selecting him till the 6 nations ? I don't believe Man thinks he's above the law and situations may escalate ?! I got locked up or 12 hours for telling a police officer to stop touching me when I wasn't even under arrest.

Manu not playing in the world cup is punishment for all of us, not just him. He's still a kid really. I'd take him still !

 

[Maverick1987]

People are saying that allowing people who have been indisciplined out of camp into camp without punishment will create further indiscipline. But that never hurt Wales' performance with Philips. Or Savea with New Zealand. Or probably no end of other sporting environments. England's 2011 WC isn't a like-for-like comparison, as they were all in camp problems, and Tuilagi's done this out of camp.

It would be foolish to say there's no link between indiscipline and poor performance, but it doesn't automatically follow. Which is what I'm solely getting at here. Strong management can and will establish a break between disruptive behaviour outside the environment and performance within.

So I'm not seeing any benefit to the England rugby team's performance here and now. In return we give up one of our best players at a supposedly critical juncture. That strikes me as a very poor trade. We have basically sacrificed one of our best players for the Moral and PR good of the England rugby as a whole, insofar as I can see, and that might be a good thing but it's an entirely separate argument from the one I'm pursuing. In any case, Tommi has a point that not every nation would do this - we are being different. And maybe that's good, and maybe that's not, but either way that definitely seems to be the way it is.

Have to agree with all of this ! This "could" cost Lancaster his job if we go out in the group stages .

I'm sure Lancaster thought about it long and hard