[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[TRF_Olyy]

It's a lose lose situation.
Lancaster/The RFU can't look like they're condoning it/making special allowances because he's potentially a game changer (after only 3, is it?, games this year who knows how he'll play) but then the ban means we're without one of our (potentially) best players for the biggest RWC there's been.

 

[Tony Manx]

So we let a repeat offender off and bring him into the English team because "some" feel a totally undercooked non passer of the ball is better than any other option?

Indeed his absence would be seen as THE excuse for any failure?

It would be wrong for his fellow players who conduct themselves within the law and with a modicum of respect for each other and for him to play.

It would be wrong for the signal it sent to youngsters aspiring to the top level.

It would be wrong of Lancaster to let this guy yet again let down his ethos of discipline and good behavior in and off the pitch.

It would be wrong to Armitage and Abenedanon (sp?) to be excluded for not following the guidelines if he were allowed back after a far more serious breach.

It would be wrong for the reputation of a sport which is held up to the general public as above that of the likes of soccer.

It would be wrong to follow the examples of other countries who are prepared to forgo decency in the name of expedience!

It would be just plain wrong and not even himself or his manager dispute that!

He needs counseling (whatever that means) and learn how to control his temper and grow up. To excuse it as his being young....well........I despair!!!

 

[Every Time Ref]

So we let a repeat offender off and bring him into the English team because "some" feel a totally undercooked non passer of the ball is better than any other option?

Indeed his absence would be seen as THE excuse for any failure?

It would be wrong for his fellow players who conduct themselves within the law and with a modicum of respect for each other and for him to play.

It would be wrong for the signal it sent to youngsters aspiring to the top level.

It would be wrong of Lancaster to let this guy yet again let down his ethos of discipline and good behavior in and off the pitch.

It would be wrong to Armitage and Abenedanon (sp?) to be excluded for not following the guidelines if he were allowed back after a far more serious breach.

It would be wrong for the reputation of a sport which is held up to the general public as above that of the likes of soccer.

It would be wrong to follow the examples of other countries who are prepared to forgo decency in the name of expedience!

It would be just plain wrong and not even himself or his manager dispute that!

He needs counseling (whatever that means) and learn how to control his temper and grow up. To excuse it as his being young....well........I despair!!!

Has he been arrested before?

 

[McTallshort]

Has he been arrested before?

Yeah in NZ jumping off a ferry

 

[Peat]

You have seen the other options, right? Half of Ireland's key forwards only had a couple of games (if that) prior to the 6N, happily Tuilagi would have had more than that to get himself back into the groove thanks to warm up matches and the stats have been posted up here before about how much he passes at 12, which is about as much as any other crash 12 (they also show his greediness at 13 isn't massively out of line with some of England's other options either). So I don't think either of those concerns are particularly valid.

The moral case for dropping him is inarguable. The PR case for dropping him is inarguable. He's brought it upon himself and I don't think Lancaster had any choice having pondered it. So I'm not exactly crying salt tears over that. But the idea this isn't a blow to the England team's chances - well, the only thing people have convinced me of so far is they've forgotten how good he can be. And the moral arguments are completely, totally irrelevant to that.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Yeah in NZ jumping off a ferry

I see, I didn't realise he was arrested. I really didn't think that was that big a deal either, stupid of course but not violent - we're talking about assault on this occasion, he hasn't assaulted anyone before, has he? I don't want to leap to judgement until I know a little more about what actually happened, there's a world ofdifference between pushing someone in the chest and punching them and from the wording I've read it seems his assault could have been either.

I don't believe Man thinks he's above the law and situations may escalate ?! I got locked up or 12 hours for telling a police officer to stop touching me when I wasn't even under arrest.

Yes, it's true that not all police can necessarily be trusted not to exaggerate the incident, or get drunk on their own power.

 

[McTallshort]

I see, I didn't realise he was arrested. I really didn't think that was that big a deal either, stupid of course but not violent - we're talking about assault on this occasion, he hasn't assaulted anyone before, has he? I don't want to leap to judgement until I know a little more about what actually happened, there's a world ofdifference between pushing someone in the chest and punching them and from the wording I've read it seems his assault could have been either.



Yes, it's true that not all police can necessarily be trusted not to exaggerate the incident, or get drunk on their own power.

He did use Chris Ashtons head as a stress ball once.

 

[Every Time Ref]

He did use Chris Ashtons head as a stress ball once.

Well gee, that's just common sense!

 

[Patchey]

Would we be debating this as much if say this was Tom Wood or Danny Care? Someone playing in a position where we have depth. or Lawes maybe? A genuine stand out in the team but again, someone who has a lot of competition. Just musing aloud.

He did use Chris Ashtons head as a stress ball once.

Ashton does look a bit squishy tbf, easy mistake to make!

 

[91jmay]

I need details before I condemn him. Assaulting a police officer can be a fatuous charge.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I need details before I condemn him. Assaulting a police officer can be a fatuous charge.

My mate got done for assaulting a police officer on a team night out because they pulled his arm (in a sling - he'd dislocated his shoulder in the game earlier that day) and he tried to yank his arm away from them.
They initially took interest in him because he was just having a laugh/push & shove with another team mate and they thought they were fighting.

I can understand police taking a strong stance because drunken arseholes are everywhere on a night out, but (if the reports are true) he pushed them then assault is extreme. They need something lesser - assault for a push is a bit OTT

 

[ratsapprentice]

There is a real issue with legal terminology and the way that it is (rightly, but not correctly) interpreted by the general public.

Terms like "assault" and "life sentence" - which don't mean exactly what most people assume they do.

 

[yaboyjj]

A leaked training squad is up from the Telegraph:

Back three: M Brown, A Goode, J Nowell, A Watson, J May, M Yarde.

Centres: J Joseph, B Barritt, H Slade, L Burrell, B Twelvetrees, K Eastmond, S Burgess, E Daly.

Fly-halves: G Ford, O Farrell, D Cipriani, S Myler.

Scrum-halves: B Youngs, R Wigglesworth, D Care, L Dickson, J Simpson.

Props: A Corbisiero, J Marler, M Vunipola, D Wilson, D Cole, K Brookes, M Mullan.

Hookers: D Hartley, T Youngs, R Webber, L Cowan-Dickie.

Locks: J Launchbury, C Lawes, G Parling, D Attwood, G Kruis, M Itoje, E Slater.

Back row: C Robshaw, B Vunipola, B Morgan, T Wood, J Haskell, N Easter, M Kvesic, C Clark.


Good news: Itoje, Kvesic, Slade, Simpson

Somehow Webber is in ahead of Jamie George, Myler I guess is waterboy, Burgess somehow makes it in as a centre (give me a break) and Easter ahead of Ewers
No Roko or Pennel either

 

[Bada-Bing!]

A leaked training squad is up from the Telegraph:

Back three: M Brown, A Goode, J Nowell, A Watson, J May, M Yarde.

Centres: J Joseph, B Barritt, H Slade, L Burrell, B Twelvetrees, K Eastmond, S Burgess, E Daly.

Fly-halves: G Ford, O Farrell, D Cipriani, S Myler.

Scrum-halves: B Youngs, R Wigglesworth, D Care, L Dickson, J Simpson.

Props: A Corbisiero, J Marler, M Vunipola, D Wilson, D Cole, K Brookes, M Mullan.

Hookers: D Hartley, T Youngs, R Webber, L Cowan-Dickie.

Locks: J Launchbury, C Lawes, G Parling, D Attwood, G Kruis, M Itoje, E Slater.

Back row: C Robshaw, B Vunipola, B Morgan, T Wood, J Haskell, N Easter, M Kvesic, C Clark.


Good news: Itoje, Kvesic, Slade, Simpson

Somehow Webber is in ahead of Jamie George, Myler I guess is waterboy, Burgess somehow makes it in as a centre (give me a break) and Easter ahead of Ewers
No Roko or Pennel either

to be fair it's not a leak, it's just Steve James's guess at a possible squad.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Burgess as a centre.....lel

 

[yaboyjj]

Yeah, sorry- he's usually pretty close with his estimations though (ears within the England camp and all that).
I would really feel for Ewers though if he misses out... and Hill (this league boy upstart )
Hell, even Burgess himself practically admitted he was a poor centre- hence his move to backrow smh
It's beginning to resemble a cripple fight at inside centre, Burgess, Burrell, Twelvetrees... one can't hold onto the ball, one can't tackle and one is... well...Twelvetrees (save us Slade pls- Barritt doesn't look like such a bad option now either)

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't see how anyone can think of Burgess as a centre still after he has taken so well to being at 6.

Would be a shame not to see Roko in an England shirt again, he has been recovering some of his old form. It's a bit silly, Eastmond and Roko have a small bad patch and never get another look in whilst the likes of 12trees, Farrell etc make numerous blunders and yet are still there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Isn't Simpson out for a bit

 

[yaboyjj]

Isn't Simpson out for a bit

6-8 weeks, which only really rules him out of the Saxons match

 

[LiRFCMatt]

We analysed the squad here: http://fourballsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/rwc-2015-possible-england-squad.html