[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[McTallshort]

to be fair it's not a leak, it's just Steve James's guess at a possible squad.

Isnt he normally quite close...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Isnt he normally quite close...

It might have been an old squad Lancaster had pinned up on the wall on an office or something.

Either way it can't be too far off the truth there are only a small amount of good English players

 

[Crapspray]

I have to wonder if Lancaster is just hedging at this point. He can't be under much illusion about that squad; it's not good enough to stand anything other than a miniscule chance -- because of home advantage -- of winning the world cup.

Has he just thought that getting out of the group and then a semi-final will be enough to keep his job?

Incredibly uninspiring to think that we've basically come full-circle from Johnson. Chose some new players at the start, done okay-ish in the Six Nations, a few freak wins against the SH, and then a miserably flat World Cup. Barritt = Tindall & Hape combined, Robshaw = Moody, and Haskell = Haskell.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The initial training squad will be made up of 50+ players supposedly.

He's basically just picked the last EPS.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I have to wonder if Lancaster is just hedging at this point. He can't be under much illusion about that squad; it's not good enough to stand anything other than a miniscule chance -- because of home advantage -- of winning the world cup.

Has he just thought that getting out of the group and then a semi-final will be enough to keep his job?

Incredibly uninspiring to think that we've basically come full-circle from Johnson. Chose some new players at the start, done okay-ish in the Six Nations, a few freak wins against the SH, and then a miserably flat World Cup. Barritt = Tindall & Hape combined, Robshaw = Moody, and Haskell = Haskell.

I actually think Barritt is a great choice. Yes, uninspiring in attack, but we have JJ for that. Barritt will give you rock-solid defence, experience outside of Fordand the ability to help cover him. If we had the World Cup Final tomorrow, he would start.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Incredibly uninspiring to think that we've basically come full-circle from Johnson. Chose some new players at the start, done okay-ish in the Six Nations, a few freak wins against the SH, and then a miserably flat World Cup. Barritt = Tindall & Hape combined, Robshaw = Moody, and Haskell = Haskell.

England's team against France last RWC, compared to the one that played France in the Six Nations:
Foden - Brown
Ashton - Watson
Tuilagi - Joseph
Flood - Burrell
Cueto - Nowell
Wilkinson - Ford
Youngs - Youngs

Easter - Vunipola
Moody - Robshaw
Croft - Haskell
Palmer - Lawes
Deacon - Parling
Cole - Cole
Thompson - Hartley
Stevens - Marler

Even taking into account the crop of players who retired or were too old to pick after that, the changes have been massive. That team looks like ancient history to me.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I actually think Barritt is a great choice. Yes, uninspiring in attack, but we have JJ for that. Barritt will give you rock-solid defence, experience outside of Fordand the ability to help cover him. If we had the World Cup Final tomorrow, he would start.

To put our money where our mouth is we looked at England's possible centre pairings here and gave ratings: http://fourballsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/englands-possible-centre-partnerships.html

 

[Wendigo7]

Awful lot of moaning going on.

Good side. We're stronger than nearly everyone but NZ at home and imo should have enough to dispatch Wales and Australia with comfort, despite the best bluff and fluster from the media.

Itoje, LCD, Slade.. Great picks as is Daly. I reckon all 3 of the former will get in actually, maybe even Daly.

Should be an interesting month ahead!

Still think as I said all along we will get to the final. Just don't understand the negativity though.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Awful lot of moaning going on.

Good side. We're stronger than nearly everyone but NZ at home and imo should have enough to dispatch Wales and Australia with comfort, despite the best bluff and fluster from the media.

Itoje, LCD, Slade.. Great picks as is Daly. I reckon all 3 of the former will get in actually, maybe even Daly.

Should be an interesting month ahead!

Still think as I said all along we will get to the final. Just don't understand the negativity though.

I agree, I think it is a strong squad, world-class locks, exciting centres (certainly JJ, just depends who he is paired with... see my post above), Nowell looks dangerous, Brown & Ford are quality(if Brown is fit) and we have number 8s that can barge their way through a brick wall.

 

[Patchey]

Thats a decent squad actually, aside from Burgess in the centres, Myler and Clark.

Of course the quality of the potential 30 man squads you could pick from it vary wildly. But thats the point I guess.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm happy to see Slater there shame for Kitchener but Slater offers something different to the likes of Parling, Launchbury, Lawes and Kruis i guess.

Hopefully Clarke will not make the full squad though.

Out of those i could my 31 man squad being:
1) Marler, Crobs (I was impressed with him against Cole Saints TH let him down)
2) Youngs, Hartley,
3) Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4/5) Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, Attwood, Slater
6) Haskell, Itojie,
7) Robshaw, Kvesic
8) Morgan, Vunipola
9) Youngs, Simpson
10) Ford, Farrell, Cips
12) Eastmond, Barritt
13) Joesph, Daly
11/14) Watson, Nowell,
15) Brown, Goode

What i think it would be:
1) Marler, Corbs
2) Hartley, Youngs,
3) Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4/5) Launch, Lawes, Parling, Attwood
6) Haskell, Wood,
7) Robshaw, Clarke
8) Vunipola, Morgan
9) Youngs, Wigglesworth
10) Ford, Farrell, Cips
12) Burrell, Twelvetrees
13) Joesph, Barritt
11/14) Nowell, Watson, May,
15) Brown, Goode

 

[Peat]

I actually think Barritt is a great choice. Yes, uninspiring in attack, but we have JJ for that. Barritt will give you rock-solid defence, experience outside of Fordand the ability to help cover him. If we had the World Cup Final tomorrow, he would start.

I've never really understood this argument. How much space are Ford and Joseph going to actually find if they lack a 12 that actually distracts defences? Space in rugby rarely occurs just because one person has done an amazing thing; it's a team effort and the higher you go and the tighter the defences, the truer it is. Besides, he's a 12, he has two jobs, one's to tackle and the other is to run with the ball (to reduce the complexity of the role hugely), it's a bit like saying it's ok if a hooker can't throw, his lineout jumpers will lean really far out...

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I've never really understood this argument. How much space are Ford and Joseph going to actually find if they lack a 12 that actually distracts defences? Space in rugby rarely occurs just because one person has done an amazing thing; it's a team effort and the higher you go and the tighter the defences, the truer it is. Besides, he's a 12, he has two jobs, one's to tackle and the other is to run with the ball (to reduce the complexity of the role hugely), it's a bit like saying it's ok if a hooker can't throw, his lineout jumpers will lean really far out...

I never said it was an explicitly bad thing. I stand by what I said, uninspiring in attack, but that doesn't mean I don't rate the combination, I gave them a 9/10 on my latest blog post. Interestingly though, it is the JJ and Slade combo leading the way in the poll on that page with 43%, followed by JJ and Barritt at 31%. I did give both 9/10, so no surprise to me that they are the two leaders, but Slade is a more popular choice as he is inspiring in attaack, and definitely creates space for those around him. Him and JJ each have 7 tries this season the PL, not bad.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Spot on, Peat.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I've never really understood this argument. How much space are Ford and Joseph going to actually find if they lack a 12 that actually distracts defences? Space in rugby rarely occurs just because one person has done an amazing thing; it's a team effort and the higher you go and the tighter the defences, the truer it is. Besides, he's a 12, he has two jobs, one's to tackle and the other is to run with the ball (to reduce the complexity of the role hugely), it's a bit like saying it's ok if a hooker can't throw, his lineout jumpers will lean really far out...

It does depend on what the hooker brings. Instead of looking at what people can't do look at what they bring, the best defensive centre you can get. If we are going to win the world cup, which we almost certainly will not, than we need to have a solid defence and that's what Barritt brings us. It would be a great move to go for Slade if he fits the 12 shirt as he has good defence and a running game, but then he can't crash ball so he wouldn't be good enough

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...it-is-professionally-convenient-31228746.html

 

[yaboyjj]

Just watched the Bath game and Webber was unbelievably rubbish- he can't even throw into the line-out anymore. I'm sorry to say, but I don't think Bath are cut out to win the big pressure matches- the pack especially doesn't seem to have enough bite or nous (they were outplayed by Gloucester under 20's for large parts of the game).
The future for Glouc looks bright though- Purdy especially looks like a really good player (Ludlow and Thomas were also excellent)

 

[Peat]

It does depend on what the hooker brings. Instead of looking at what people can't do look at what they bring, the best defensive centre you can get. If we are going to win the world cup, which we almost certainly will not, than we need to have a solid defence and that's what Barritt brings us. It would be a great move to go for Slade if he fits the 12 shirt as he has good defence and a running game, but then he can't crash ball so he wouldn't be good enough

Aka the Tom Youngs theorem!*

Yeah, sometimes you have to overlook massive huge flaws in a player's skillset because that's the hand you've been dealt and I accept that.

But what I don't accept is this whitewashing of the massive huge flaw as being unimportant/something that will be covered by someone else.

I don't want to dismiss Barritt. Just the argument that "It doesn't matter if his ballcarrying is shunt". It does, it's a huge problem, it's just it looks depressingly likely we will have even bigger problems with the other candidates.

*Unfair tbh, he's a better thrower than given credit for, which is admittedly not hard, but it amused me.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I've never really understood this argument. How much space are Ford and Joseph going to actually find if they lack a 12 that actually distracts defences? Space in rugby rarely occurs just because one person has done an amazing thing; it's a team effort and the higher you go and the tighter the defences, the truer it is. Besides, he's a 12, he has two jobs, one's to tackle and the other is to run with the ball (to reduce the complexity of the role hugely), it's a bit like saying it's ok if a hooker can't throw, his lineout jumpers will lean really far out...

I think I've said before that I don't actually see Barritt as a choice that would totally hamper the centres-Ford axis. Yes he's not going to distribute like Eastmond or crash like Manu, but he can do enough to distract defences, especially playing off Ford's shoulder with hard lines. Barritt's not special, but I think he's a clever enough player to, with Ford, make use of what he can do- the autumn test against Australia would be a good example.

 

[Peat]

A test where he didn't play at 12 as evidence of how he'd go at 12?