England future management?

[ratsapprentice]

If true, that does remove at least one of my criticisms on structure.

Not really - it doesn't matter if there is a provision for the RFU to ask, if the RFU are not willing to impose their will due to the hostility of the clubs and the volatility of the relationship between them.

What do you think Craig or Cockerill would say were the RFU to tell them where to play "their" players?
"**** you" would be a pretty safe bet.

 

[Maverick1987]

Not really - it doesn't matter if there is a provision for the RFU to ask, if the RFU are not willing to impose their will due to the hostility of the clubs and the volatility of the relationship between them.

What do you think Craig or Cockerill would say were the RFU to tell them where to play "their" players?
"**** you" would be a pretty safe bet.

We don't need them to do that . Just play the players in the correct positions ...... We have so many good players in various clubs now that we don't need to shoe horn players into positions they don't play in anyway ....

Unless you have to drop Farrell in which case we should definitely show horn him into inside centre ....

 

[ratsapprentice]

We don't need them to do that . Just play the players in the correct positions ...... We have so many good players in various clubs now that we don't need to shoe horn players into positions they don't play in anyway ....

Yeah - well that's the issue isn't it?

Who decides which is a player's "correct" position?

 

[psychic duck]

Not really - it doesn't matter if there is a provision for the RFU to ask, if the RFU are not willing to impose their will due to the hostility of the clubs and the volatility of the relationship between them.

What do you think Craig or Cockerill would say were the RFU to tell them where to play "their" players?
"**** you" would be a pretty safe bet.

And quite rightly too, as it would damage the credibility of the tournament to have outside parties interfering with selection.

 

[Peat]

Happily the guys in the AP don't care much about credibility, so no biggie there ^_^

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't disagree.

Which is why I would prefer if they weren't independent.

 

[j'nuh]

Brown at 11
Foden at 11
Burgess at 12
Robshaw at 7
Wood at 6, Wood at 8
Barritt at 13

... the thought of the England coaches having full control over the clubs terrifies me.

England already have a mighty carrot and stick to influence decisions: whether or not the player plays for England. If players are on the verge of playing for England and get told to play a certain position, they will influence the club's decision. No club wants to annoy their best players. So I'm fairly certain it's because of England that Robshaw played at 7 for Harlequins and Wood at 6 for Saints.

But I'm totally fine with England not having total sway. If England wanted to move Sharples to 13 on the off-chance that they might pick him 2 years down the line, then... just no.

 

[Maverick1987]

Brown at 11
Foden at 11
Burgess at 12
Robshaw at 7
Wood at 6, Wood at 8
Barritt at 13

... the thought of the England coaches having full control over the clubs terrifies me.

England already have a mighty carrot and stick to influence decisions: whether or not the player plays for England. If players are on the verge of playing for England and get told to play a certain position, they will influence the club's decision. No club wants to annoy their best players. So I'm fairly certain it's because of England that Robshaw played at 7 for Harlequins and Wood at 6 for Saints.

But I'm totally fine with England not having total sway. If England wanted to move Sharples to 13 on the off-chance that they might pick him 2 years down the line, then... just no.

 

[McTallshort]

Yeah lets hand over the management of our players to RFU control because they really know their stuff.....

 

[Mattybuck]

Brown at 11
Foden at 11
Burgess at 12
Robshaw at 7
Wood at 6, Wood at 8
Barritt at 13

... the thought of the England coaches having full control over the clubs terrifies me.

England already have a mighty carrot and stick to influence decisions: whether or not the player plays for England. If players are on the verge of playing for England and get told to play a certain position, they will influence the club's decision. No club wants to annoy their best players. So I'm fairly certain it's because of England that Robshaw played at 7 for Harlequins and Wood at 6 for Saints.

But I'm totally fine with England not having total sway. If England wanted to move Sharples to 13 on the off-chance that they might pick him 2 years down the line, then... just no.

Agreed... Let the coaches who work with the players all year round pick their best position...

 

[Peat]

Why on earth would your base your opinion of a system solely on what happened in incompetent hands?

Hands up all of you who've said they want to see Henry Slade play 12 for England, which presumably involves him playing there, which Baxter has no intention of doing so at present - I presume you're happy for this state of affairs to continue?

 

[TheOvalBall]

I'm don't support England, heck, i'm not even English, but the more i think about it, Robbie Deans would be a great fit for England.

 

[j'nuh]

Why on earth would your base your opinion of a system solely on what happened in incompetent hands?

Hands up all of you who've said they want to see Henry Slade play 12 for England, which presumably involves him playing there, which Baxter has no intention of doing so at present - I presume you're happy for this state of affairs to continue?

My main problem with it is that the England coaches do not have to live with any negative consequences of moving a player. If Slade moves to 12, Exe will have little back-up at 10 and would have to move Hill presumably to 13. It would massively change their 10-12-13 dynamic. Even if it goes well for Slade and he shines, the other players might not. And if Slade is no good there, England simply don't have to pick him. There is absolutely zero accountability towards the decision-making if it were to be unilateral. It's not in the interests of the clubs, players or fans, and has a fairly marginal effect on England.

I like the current system because England does have power up to a certain point which allows them to effectively move the key players, but if what they are suggesting is madness, then the clubs have a means of stopping it. Like Burgess at 12.

Slade hasn't moved to 12 because England haven't been interested in him moving there. Things might be different if they were.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

My main problem with it is that the England coaches do not have to live with any negative consequences of moving a player. If Slade moves to 12, Exe will have little back-up at 10 and would have to move Hill presumably to 13. It would massively change their 10-12-13 dynamic. Even if it goes well for Slade and he shines, the other players might not. And if Slade is no good there, England simply don't have to pick him. There is absolutely zero accountability towards the decision-making if it were to be unilateral. It's not in the interests of the clubs, players or fans, and has a fairly marginal effect on England.

I like the current system because England does have power up to a certain point which allows them to effectively move the key players, but if what they are suggesting is madness, then the clubs have a means of stopping it. Like Burgess at 12.

Slade hasn't moved to 12 because England haven't been interested in him moving there. Things might be different if they were.

Has anyone thought that hill might be a better 12 and slade not a better 10 than steenson so he's being shoehorned into 13?

I really rate slade but if Baxter thinks hill is a better 12 than slade why would an England coach think differently?

 

[Peat]

Has anyone thought that hill might be a better 12 and slade not a better 10 than steenson so he's being shoehorned into 13?

I really rate slade but if Baxter thinks hill is a better 12 than slade why would an England coach think differently?

Preferring Hill at 12 ahead of Slade given his resources and game plan =/= thinking Hill is a better 12 =/= being right =/= being the player England need at 12.


J'nuh - then you're happy to have England hamstrung. That simple.

 

[thechosenfamily]

Cheika rules himself out.

No surprise to be honest

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34834783

 

[TheOvalBall]

Cheika rules himself out.

No surprise to be honest

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34834783

How Cheika is even an option is beyond me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, seemed really bizarre to me.
He's coaching his home country, only been in charge for a season and has turned them around massively.
If he leaves before the next RWC I'll be amazed.

 

[McTallshort]

It's going to be white, willing to take bets

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's going to be white, willing to take bets

Racist.