England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[ratsapprentice]

Edit: Genuinely can't believe EJ reckons you can negate the literal fact that there's less oxygen in the air by just being there for less time. It's the exact opposite of what you should do.

Let's not pretend it's Eddie coming up with this - I'd be astonished if it wasn't led by his SS/S&C team.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Let's not pretend it's Eddie coming up with this - I'd be astonished if it wasn't led by his SS/S&C team.

They need to be put in the bin

 

[ratsapprentice]

They need to be put in the bin

We'll see.

I'm not saying they're right - there's not always universal consensus in scientific fields - but you have to assume what they're doing is based on evidence.

 

[RedruthRFC]

We'll see.

I'm not saying they're right - there's not always universal consensus in scientific fields - but you have to assume what they're doing is based on evidence.

This, although a fade in performance as the game goes on wouldn't be evidence that any other approach would have been better, just that the approach taken didn't turn them into supermen. However, it does seem strange that the two approaches being advocated diametrically opposite. Saying that, Erasmus could be taking a contrary view to try and create discord. It would be interesting to know what the Sharks and Stormers do in the build up to visits to high altitude venues, although budget might stand in the way of them getting to the venue too far ahead of time.

A quick Google search throws up plenty of articles about the effect of altitude on sporting performance and the merits of altitude training, but little about how to minimise the effects. One of the few useful articles that I came across suggested that it takes three weeks to acclimatise fully and says that totally unacclimatised athletes will experience (on average) a 30% drop in "athletic capacity". It also suggests that getting to high altitude venues ahead of time is a popular approach.

What seems strange to me is the idea that an extra four or five days of balls out training will yield an appreciable improvement in the performance of professional athletes, but I guess that's the Eddie Jones way.

Elsewhere.....Twitter reports that Launchbury and Simmonds have missed training for medical assessments.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Minimum of 3 days acclimitisation, any lower sees a 50% drop on aerobic performance of 50mins, with the ideal amount being 2-3 weeks, is what I came across reading a few abstracts on Google scholar.

In Eddie we trust, though, I guess.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Elsewhere.....Twitter reports that Launchbury and Simmonds have missed training for medical assessments.

Simmonds was supposedly tired from the flight - did some one-on-one warpmup/stretching stuff to get over that, then joined the end of training after it was complete - seems like he's fine.

Launch was going someone one-on-one training/physio/S&C stuff. Calf ****le apparently.
Would be perfectly happy with Isiekwe slotting in TBH.

Info from a SS video interview with Hatley... here's Eddie sticking his finger up at Craig: http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-union/11394089/jones-bath-chief-sounds-like-trump

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You can always find a contrarian viewpoint to any science.

The effects of altitude vs sea level have studied since at least 1968 when there was a huge disparity in the comparative performances of the endurance athletes and sprinters in the Mexico City Olympics.

Team GB have pre OG holding camps close to where the Games are being held to acclimatise. In cricket it's widely accepted (though it doesn't always happen) that time in the middle is needed to get to grips with local conditions

And whatever the scientific arguments isn't it just common sense to allow players to get used to unfamiliar conditions that they'll be playing in, whether heat, cold, altitude or whatever. Especially when there aren't any warm up matches.

In Eddie we trust, though, I guess.

Not blindly.

 

[Nudger]

Simmonds was supposedly tired from the flight - did some one-on-one warpmup/stretching stuff to get over that, then joined the end of training after it was complete - seems like he's fine.

Launch was going someone one-on-one training/physio/S&C stuff. Calf ****le apparently.
Would be perfectly happy with Isiekwe slotting in TBH.

Info from a SS video interview with Hatley... here's Eddie sticking his finger up at Craig: http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-union/11394089/jones-bath-chief-sounds-like-trump

Ye nic is a fine replacement
But launchbury didn't look bad running up hill with a pack on his back lol

 

[ratsapprentice]

The effects of altitude vs sea level have studied since at least 1968 when there was a huge disparity in the comparative performances of the endurance athletes and sprinters in the Mexico City Olympics.

I'm playing devil's advocate.

I don't keep up to date with what SS says about Altitude.

It's a relatively common situation in sports, even more so in rugby, so I think it's reasonable to assume that this isn't just a massive oversight. It's quite a major component of modern SS... it just seems very unreasonable to me, that you'd assume that they aren't aware of this.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ye nic is a fine replacement
But launchbury didn't look bad running up hill with a pack on his back lol

That was last week at Pennyhill.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm playing devil's advocate.

I don't keep up to date with what SS says about Altitude.

It's a relatively common situation in sports, even more so in rugby, so I think it's reasonable to assume that this isn't just a massive oversight. It's quite a major component of modern SS... it just seems very unreasonable to me, that you'd assume that they aren't aware of this.

Oh they'll have done their homework to the nth degree. For all I know they've hired a Sherpa as an altitude consultant. We'll see on Saturday if it's a master stroke, but if it's not he's just opened himself up to a load more questions.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/exclusiv ... aching-set

Some changes in the U18's coaching department.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Greater emphasis on basic handling and discipline wouldn't go amiss, the number of opportunities butchered because of a drop ball or silly infringement at U20 level (and even seniors) is sometimes bordering on embarrassing.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Greater emphasis on basic handling and discipline wouldn't go amiss, the number of opportunities butchered because of a drop ball or silly infringement at U20 level (and even seniors) is sometimes bordering on embarrassing.

Eh?

England's recent success at age grade has been largely on the back of world class skill levels.

By all accounts these coaches are very, very good - and have overseen exactly what you're calling for.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Eh?

England's recent success at age grade has been largely on the back of world class skill levels.

By all accounts these coaches are very, very good - and have overseen exactly what you're calling for.

They are good but when you have many more handling errors and infringements than the Italians you can't pretend it isn't something that needs looking at. We are winning despite that, not because of it. I think on about 4 or 5 occasions we did blind passes straight to Italian players. New Zealand will cause serious issues if it isn't tightened up.

 

[ratsapprentice]

They are good but when you have many more handling errors and infringements than the Italians you can't pretend it isn't something that needs looking at. We are winning despite that, not because of it. I think on about 4 or 5 occasions we did blind passes straight to Italian players. New Zealand will cause serious issues if it isn't tightened up.

That's not the responsibility of the u18 coaches, who have demonstrably significantly improved the fundamental skillset of our age grade players in recent years.
Errors in this tournament are primarily down to whoever is coaching them in this tournament.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

That's not the responsibility of the u18 coaches, who have demonstrably significantly improved the fundamental skillset of our age grade players in recent years.
Errors in this tournament are primarily down to whoever is coaching them in this tournament.

Can the improvement of skillset really be pinned on the England U18s coaches who spend what, 5 or 6 weeks with the players a year? Surely that's down to academy coaches.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Can the improvement of skillset really be pinned on the England U18s coaches who spend what, 5 or 6 weeks with the players a year? Surely that's down to academy coaches.

They have a huge influence on coaching for u18's (and other age grades) across the country. They coach the coaches, so to speak, as far as I'm aware.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Their fault for picking like 50 Sale players in 2 seasons recently IMO.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Their fault for picking like 50 Sale players in 2 seasons recently IMO.

What's this got to do with Wasps player scouts?