England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[curtbob7]

View attachment 5942

Lovely picture that. Is it a relation?

I like how our 13 hopes rely on sicknote being available, and if he isn't then sicknote no.2.

We should just expect none of manu teo or Binny being available for the rwc

True. I think Loz looks promising there. Or bring back Banahan waaaat.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Lovely picture that. Is it a relation?

Meet your real dad.

 

[curtbob7]

Meet your real dad.

https://goo.gl/images/fP2HfC

Bless

So Nowell should play wing rather than 13 because he's too slow to play 13?... I also don't see why people are keen on playing Manu at 12; he doesn't have the skillset to play there IMO. He's got no kicking game and a weak passing game. I could get on board with it if we had a Slade/Loz-esque 13 to make up for his lack of general back line ability but are either of those really good enough to be considered first choice? I don't think so. Agree that Loz is probably more of a 12 than a 13 but disagree wholeheartedly on Slade. Last season was easily his worst and it's the season in which he played at 12 for most of the season rather than 13. Maybe a coincidence. Probably not though.

I remember Austin Healy suggesting Nowell should've been a 7. I can see why, bit more weight and he wouldn't be bad at all. I think he lacks the height and pace to really excel at international level as a regular back 3 but would be nailed on for the 23 shirt fully fit for the WC right now due to his versatility and skillset. He's a brilliant rugby player.

 

[TommiG88]

All good players, but v light on test experience, which does count in the big moments. For that reason alone it wouldn't surprise me if both Robshaw and the Hask travel.

Shields is a bit older and used to high level rugby, but there's no guarantee he'll adapt to international rugby especially as he's going to have to cope with a whole new hemisphere and lifestyle. Not sure if it makes me laugh or cry about how much hope people seem to be pinning on a Kiwi reject.

I'm hoping, but I think Underhill could be a top 6. I just feel Robshaw's legs are starting to go and that's his main attribute.

Although, I'm probably jumping the gun, and he'll have an awesome summer.

 

[Scotty]

I'm hoping, but I think Underhill could be a top 6. I just feel Robshaw's legs are starting to go and that's his main attribute.

Although, I'm probably jumping the gun, and he'll have an awesome summer.

Then who 7 as underhill is not a great carrier,
Underhill simmonds billy work, curry bench

But cant rely on billy being only carrier in the back row or WHEN he's injured again we are screwed

 

[TommiG88]

Then who 7 as underhill is not a great carrier,
Underhill simmonds billy work, curry bench

But cant rely on billy being only carrier in the back row or WHEN he's injured again we are screwed

If we have Mako / Genge and Sinckler in the pack, then we have carriers else where.

Underhill and Curry could be a potent pair in defence. Then bring Simmonds off the bench to add in some pace against tiring defences. All hypothetical, but I think the back row needs tinkering now.

If it's not underhill or shields at 6. It could be a 2nd rower or Robshaw, so still a lack of carrier.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Only in England will we think "Well the 6 isn't doing what we want so let's bin off the openside for someone to pick up their slack"

 

[Jimbo]

The thing about the 9 and 10 is they are decision makers who choose from the options presented to them by their team as well as a few they can do individually (basically kick or run themselves). A pack that is going backwards will mean all the passing options are consistently bad. People forget the 9 and 10 don't necessarily "create" the passes they do, they merely pick from the options. It's for the rest of the team to present them with these options. If a 9 or 10 keeps passing to players who aren't making any headway then they get criticism but if they start taking it on themselves to do something else like kicking or running then they get criticism for losing their heads and trying to force the game. Being behind a losing pack is nearly always going to make even the best halfbacks look bad. I imagine Murray and Sexton would look far less impressive if the Irish pack wasn't as good as it is. Last time the Irish pack were truly on the back foot, they lost.

Some truth in that but Sexton doesn't get walked over like Ford does, backs missing tackles puts u on the back foot even more...
We will never agree on this as I recall saying in the six nations Leicester looked better with Tamua at ten u claimed it was simply the Leicester pack had suddenly started doing their job properly I responded along the lines of seeing Leicester doing well in the prem that didn't happen suppose the pack suddenly forgot how to play once Ford returned...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Some truth in that but Sexton doesn't get walked over like Ford does, backs missing tackles puts u on the back foot even more...
We will never agree on this as I recall saying in the six nations Leicester looked better with Tamua at ten u claimed it was simply the Leicester pack had suddenly started doing their job properly I responded along the lines of seeing Leicester doing well in the prem that didn't happen suppose the pack suddenly forgot how to play once Ford returned...

Ford doesn't tend to miss tackles and forwards missing tackles puts you on the back foot far more than a back conceding 1 or 2 m in the tackle. I'm not the only one who thinks Tigers upturn in performance was linked more to the forwards than the 10.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If we have Mako / Genge and Sinckler in the pack, then we have carriers else where.

Underhill and Curry could be a potent pair in defence. Then bring Simmonds off the bench to add in some pace against tiring defences. All hypothetical, but I think the back row needs tinkering now.

If it's not underhill or shields at 6. It could be a 2nd rower or Robshaw, so still a lack of carrier.

The more carriers the better.

On the off chance that Binny's fit, and Shields is all he's cracked up to be, then you've got all the power you need in the back row and you could pair them with a flier who plays a bit looser. Simmonds long term position feels like 7 to me.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Eddie laying into Brucie: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-u...els-bruce-craig-donald-trump-rugby-war-words/

"Bruce Craig sounds like the Donald Trump of rugby. He has the same hairstyle," Jones said.

"Everything we do is about training to get better, it's not about satisfying some bloke who has got plenty of money in Bath and thinks he knows everything about rugby. I find it all a bit tedious."

"We've got an owner who thinks he knows everything about rugby. Really, I wish I knew that much," Jones said.

"If I knew that much I'd probably have as much money as him. Unfortunately I don't so I'll just stick to rugby.

"Bruce is absolutely obsessed by intensity, Bruce is the intensity king of the world. We train appropriately for Test match rugby."

'It seems like whatever Bruce says, goes. Who knows, maybe he'll be the CEO of the RFU soon.'

I couldn't be happier.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ford doesn't tend to miss tackles and forwards missing tackles puts you on the back foot far more than a back conceding 1 or 2 m in the tackle. I'm not the only one who thinks Tigers upturn in performance was linked more to the forwards than the 10.

also playing a crap quins, a Sarries missing half their team and Worcester helped those games.

James also forgets that we beat Wasps and Bath with Ford at 10 once he returned........

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Eddie laying into Brucie: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-u...els-bruce-craig-donald-trump-rugby-war-words/

So Happy right now.

Funny how many people taking Craig's side guess most are casuals with little idea of Bath current state.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Eddie laying into Brucie: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-u...els-bruce-craig-donald-trump-rugby-war-words/









I couldn't be happier.

Wish all this kind of stuff could be kept behind closed doors. No matter what your view, it's pretty undignified.

Whether that's just Eddie being Eddie or whether that's a symptom of the pressure getting to him I don't know. What I do know is that once you go above the parapet like that you're lining up open season from the press when you least want it.

He really needs some good results and performances over the next couple of weeks.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Looking at's Eddie history it's pretty clear it's Eddie being Eddie.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wish all this kind of stuff could be kept behind closed doors. No matter what your view, it's pretty undignified.

I'm glad - but then again, I want the RFU to at least part-own the clubs... so....

I think it's also due to Eddie's latent frustration with the English system, which he was critical of when the rumours about him being hired first came out.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm glad - but then again, I want the RFU to at least part-own the clubs... so....

I think it's also due to Eddie's latent frustration with the English system, which he was critical of when the rumours about him being hired first came out.

As ever it all comes down to club v country and it's obvious to all that the current structure doesn't put the national team first. It should do if we want to be regular contenders.

Jones may be frustrated by it, but he knew that was the deal he was taking on. Can't recall him being too noisy about it when we were winning.

Before he was hired he was also publicly critical of Robshaw.....

 

[ratsapprentice]

Can't recall him being too noisy about it when we were winning.

Before he was hired he was also publicly critical of Robshaw.

Clearly told not to be critical of it - he's talking now because Craig is publicly and directly criticising him.

I think his criticism of Robshaw was fair at the time, and his continued selection possibly a reflection of Jones' thoughts about those who might replace him...

As ever it all comes down to club v country and it's obvious to all that the current structure doesn't put the national team first. It should do if we want to be regular contenders.

I'd go beyond that, and say that it would be better for the clubs too....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

In the whole club vs country thing it's staggering how short sighted so many clubs are. Success of the national team brings far more people to the sport than any club having a success.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Only in England would you find a large body of people joining on the side of a millionaire club to the National coach.

And not like Craig is viewed as mr nice guy by the rugby fans a few years ago people screamed for Bath to be docked points, and I notice some of those same people are kissing his ass in this debate.

Enbd of the day England pay to be able to have the players not be told how to train them by the clubs. If clubs want to go against that then have fun trying to sign players who want to play for England...