England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[BPM]

Too soon for Earl I think.

I hope he gets more game time next season with Burger out of the picture, but he's still likely to be behind Billy, Wray and Clark for a spot at 8 or 7.

I also think he's too small for a test 8. He's more similar to Simmonds IMO.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Come the World Cup, I hope to see a back row of;

6 Shields / Underhill
7 Curry / Simmonds
8 Billy / Earl

All good players, but v light on test experience, which does count in the big moments. For that reason alone it wouldn't surprise me if both Robshaw and the Hask travel.

Shields is a bit older and used to high level rugby, but there's no guarantee he'll adapt to international rugby especially as he's going to have to cope with a whole new hemisphere and lifestyle. Not sure if it makes me laugh or cry about how much hope people seem to be pinning on a Kiwi reject.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I really like Earl. Hope he isn't pressured into bulking up too much (although a little bit probably is needed) as he doesn't seem to be physically lacking in the Prem.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

All good players, but v light on test experience, which does count in the big moments. For that reason alone it wouldn't surprise me if both Robshaw and the Hask travel.

Shields is a bit older and used to high level rugby, but there's no guarantee he'll adapt to international rugby especially as he's going to have to cope with a whole new hemisphere and lifestyle. Not sure if it makes me laugh or cry about how much hope people seem to be pinning on a Kiwi reject.

He did reject a call up though... not a reject in that sense

 

[Zootalaws]

All good players, but v light on test experience, which does count in the big moments. For that reason alone it wouldn't surprise me if both Robshaw and the Hask travel.

Shields is a bit older and used to high level rugby, but there's no guarantee he'll adapt to international rugby especially as he's going to have to cope with a whole new hemisphere and lifestyle. Not sure if it makes me laugh or cry about how much hope people seem to be pinning on a Kiwi reject.

Not a reject - he turned down the chance to join the AB training squad. It's a hard place to be a 6 in the ABs and expect a lengthy career.

I think he will surprise you in his work-rate, skill and acuity. And he's as hard as ****. Never-back-down, break-rocks-all-day hard. Last guy off the pitch after bringing in the loose kit, first guy at training, last guy to leave. Smart, quiet, a leader, not a big head.

He will be sorely missed in Wellington.

 

[Jimbo]

How about ditching all Quins players from the England setup for the short term, the club currently is beyond broken there is absolutely no way with who they have on paper they should perform so **** in the prem, hopefully that and Gustard might bring out the best in them, you never know the likes of Merchant might even put his hand up he seemed to have a lot of potential which is waiting to be unlocked.

 

[ratsapprentice]

All good players, but v light on test experience, which does count in the big moments. For that reason alone it wouldn't surprise me if both Robshaw and the Hask travel.

Shields is a bit older and used to high level rugby, but there's no guarantee he'll adapt to international rugby especially as he's going to have to cope with a whole new hemisphere and lifestyle. Not sure if it makes me laugh or cry about how much hope people seem to be pinning on a Kiwi reject.

I mean, normally I agree... the level of delusion over average to decent players like Symons and O'Connor is embarassing at times.

But, Shields is actually a very good player. That's not to say he'll be a successful international, by any means... it doesn't work as simply as that.
But there's every chance he will be.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

How about ditching all Quins players from the England setup for the short term, the club currently is beyond broken there is absolutely no way with who they have on paper they should perform so **** in the prem, hopefully that and Gustard might bring out the best in them, you never know the likes of Merchant might even put his hand up he seemed to have a lot of potential which is waiting to be unlocked.

Sinckler, Marler, marchant and Care are still performing to a high level though. No point in dropping them cause the team is just poorly organised

 

[Jimbo]

Sinckler, Marler, marchant and Care are still performing to a high level though. No point in dropping them cause the team is just poorly organised

Maybe I did say for the short term maybe just the tour, Care hardly gave a good account of himself in the six nations his life was made extremely difficult as we were going backwards I fully accept that but he just kept flapping about and making complaints to the reff, just needed to get on with it and get the ball out double time.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not a reject - he turned down the chance to join the AB training squad. It's a hard place to be a 6 in the ABs and expect a lengthy career.

I think he will surprise you in his work-rate, skill and acuity. And he's as hard as ****. Never-back-down, break-rocks-all-day hard. Last guy off the pitch after bringing in the loose kit, first guy at training, last guy to leave. Smart, quiet, a leader, not a big head.

He will be sorely missed in Wellington.

Everything I'm hearing about him is good. But he's Kiwi born and bred. If he'd really been that great wouldn't the ABs have given him 5 minutes off the bench to make sure he couldn't take the English route?

He may well be an upgrade on what we have, but as Rats says we simply don't know yet.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Everything I'm hearing about him is good. But he's Kiwi born and bred. If he'd really been that great wouldn't the ABs have given him 5 minutes off the bench to make sure he couldn't take the English route?

He may well be an upgrade on what we have, but as Rats says we simply don't know yet.

English born, kiwi bred... And they DID TRY TO CAP HIM but he turned them down

 

[ratsapprentice]

English born, kiwi bred... And they DID TRY TO CAP HIM but he turned them down

English born would imply he was born in England - he wasn't.
He's Kiwi born-and-bred to English born-and-bred parents, who now live in Berkshire.

He didn't really turn them down, as such - they told him he was going to be selected for the AB's, at which point he told them he was moving to England, and the invitation was rescinded.
Which is effectively the same thing - but it's not like they gave him an opportunity and he stuck his finger up at them.

The main issue at hand here is that people are talking in absolutes - many great players simply don't work at international level for some reason.
The talk about him "not having proven himself in the premiership" is a bit like saying an elite level pro-boxer hasn't proven anything because he hasn't fought as an amateur - it's woefully flawed.

The only issue two issues relevant to his selection for England are:

1) Style - does he fit into a balanced back row? I think he can, he's well rounded enough to fit into a few different combos.

2) "Test match animal?" - I'm fairly ambivalent about that term, but it'll suffice; does his SR ability transfer well to test rugby? There's only one way to find out...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The ABs would have known about his eligibility situation for ages. What I meant was that I was surprised they didn't reserve their position on him years ago.

But that doesn't really matter now. He's in our squad so I hope it works. But even if he looks good in SA that will be off the back of the Super rugby he's used to. For the RWC he'll have had just one season of a different style and probably a higher workload than he's used to. Not everyone heading north immediately adapts.

BTW Everything I'm reading says his parents were English born, but he was born in NZ. Again, not that it really matters.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The main issue at hand here is that people are talking in absolutes - many great players simply don't work at international level for some reason.

The Alex Goode effect.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The ABs would have known about his eligibility situation for ages. What I meant was that I was surprised they didn't reserve their position on him years ago.

I simply don't think they do that, if there's a real freak player they'll bring them aboard as an apprentice. Aumua, for example.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The Alex Goode effect.

Although that's slightly more clear-cut; he doesn't have the requisite athletic ability.

There are some players where it's hard to pin down exactly why it doesn't work....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Some people don't have the mental ability to handle international rugby.
The game is stronger, faster and has more on the line to it in front of alot more people.

 

[Jimbo]

Although that's slightly more clear-cut; he doesn't have the requisite athletic ability.

There are some players where it's hard to pin down exactly why it doesn't work....

Is that a polite way of saying he's just too damn slow?

 

[ratsapprentice]

It wasn't necessarily meant to be polite.

 

[Jimbo]

Some people don't have the mental ability to handle international rugby.
The game is stronger, faster and has more on the line to it in front of alot more people.

That sums it up pretty well, much like some don't have the mental ability to play well on the back foot which was a massive factor in the six nations.