England EPS 2016/17 season.

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

With such a huge squad I'd hope to see a 1st XV vs a potential XV (Basically the XV that faced Oz vs a XV made up of the young potentials - Genge, Slade, Mallinder, Evans etc.)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Does anyone know who the club is Eddie Jones has said they have a dud relationship with?

Maybe Sarries as during internationals Eddie takes half of their starting team?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I could see us being the meh one - pretty sure we were the last club EJ came to/spoke to (and it was considerably after all the other clubs, and he'd been to some several times) after he took over the job.
Not sure he's been to watch a game at the AJ Bell, sending assistants when we've had big games. There's a definitely a "RFU doesn't care about Northern People" vibe north of Stoke.

That said, I can see Dimes and EJ getting along really well.

 

[Timbo]

The dud club I would strongly assume to be Bristol, given the aggro over Borthwick.

My breakout 3;

Sinkler or P.Hill: Dan Coles body is going to disintegrate if we don't get him some top level competition/back up soon.

Dan Robson: I'm not as down on BYoungs as others, but a fresh option at 9 would be welcome. Robson needs to kick on and become indisputably the best scrum half in the Premiership.

Mike Haley: How great would it be to have a pacy, skilful, strike running fullback. One that can also defend and is good under the highball. And kick. Haley is presently our best bet of this sort of player emerging.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On the TH, our best back up option is a fit Brookes. Don't forget that before he was injured many were calling for him to replace Cole anyway. Unfortunately he didn't look great post injury, but I'm sure he will come good again. And he can also cover LH.

 

[curtbob7]

The dud relationship I would say is with Tigers. The Manu issue and Wasps relocating onto Tigers territory will never die down.

Breakout 3:

Genge, Mallinder, Evans.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wasps main issue is with Wuss i blieve.

Yeh Cov is Tigers supporter area but the main problem is/was the Academy system between Wuss and Wasps.

I am hoping it will be
Mallinder - Will need a proper phycialm option @ 12 and if 10) Ford 12) Faz Mallinder would make a perfect bench option.
Genge - We need a LH options.
Haley - Brown is looking past it and Goode is up to standard.

Hill has broken out already IMO.

evans could prob afford another season even with Hask injured.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

With such a huge squad I'd hope to see a 1st XV vs a potential XV (Basically the XV that faced Oz vs a XV made up of the young potentials - Genge, Slade, Mallinder, Evans etc.)

I don't think that would be a great idea. We have more depth than Wales but when they did that, the probables thrashed the possibles. It's essentially a well formed team with experience against a bunch of inexperience thrown together, it doesn't give a fair representation to the potentials as they would never face a situation in international or club rugby where the entire team was inexperienced and had not played together. It's just too much stacked against them. A fairer format, if a bit arbitrary, is to just to have 2 teams with a roughly equal share of 1st XV and 2nd XV mixed together, that would do more to lessen the inherent disadvantages of a possibles vs probables.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't think that would be a great idea. We have more depth than Wales but when they did that, the probables thrashed the possibles. It's essentially a well formed team with experience against a bunch of inexperience thrown together, it doesn't give a fair representation to the potentials as they would never face a situation in international or club rugby where the entire team was inexperienced and had not played together. It's just too much stacked against them. A fairer format, if a bit arbitrary, is to just to have 2 teams with a roughly equal share of 1st XV and 2nd XV mixed together, that would do more to lessen the inherent disadvantages of a possibles vs probables.

Maybe mix up the teams then, some experienced, some potentials. I just want to see how the potentials do against their counterparts (For example, if JJ came up against Daly, how would Daly fare)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe mix up the teams then, some experienced, some potentials. I just want to see how the potentials do against their counterparts (For example, if JJ came up against Daly, how would Daly fare)

Maybe something like this would be interesting
1) Marler, 2) George, 3) Cole
4) Lawes, 5) Kruis
6) Robshaw, 7) Kvesic, 8) Beaumont
9) Youngs, 10) Ford
12) Farrell, 13) JJ
11) Yarde, 14) Wade, 15) Brown

16) Cowan-Dickie, 17) Mullan, 18) Sinkler
19) Attwood, 20) Ewers
21) Simpson, 22) Mallinder, 23) Goode

1) Vunipola, 2) Hartley, 3) Hill
4) Itoje, 5) Launchbury
6) Harrison, 7) Underhill ,8) Vunipola
9) Care, 10) Cips
12) Manu, 13) Daly
11) Nowell, 14) May, 15) Watson

16) Taylor, 17) Genge, 18) Brookes
19) Williams, 20) Clifford
21) Robson, 22) Slade, 23) Haley

(God TH is looking bare ATM).

 

[BPM]

I'd like to see that tried. Doubt it will be though.

not sure about TH looking bare? Compared to when?

I may have agreed a couple of years back when we pretty much had Cole and Wilson.

Now we have Cole, Brookes and Hill, with back up from Sinckler as a high potential youngster, Henry Thomas, Cooper-Woolley and still Wilson if we really wanted to call him up.

Personally, I don't think Cooper-Woolley is test class but if he can overcome his injuries, Thomas has always looked decent when he's had a shot.

I think Sinckler will make it. He's raw and had had disciplinary issues, but I think he'll mature in to a very good impact option from the bench. Kind of like a tight head version of Mako.

Billy Walker also looked good for the U20s too so if he can break through with Sarries he may be another one for the future.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'd like to see that tried. Doubt it will be though.

not sure about TH looking bare? Compared to when?

I may have agreed a couple of years back when we pretty much had Cole and Wilson.

Now we have Cole, Brookes and Hill, with back up from Sinckler as a high potential youngster, Henry Thomas, Cooper-Woolley and still Wilson if we really wanted to call him up.

Personally, I don't think Cooper-Woolley is test class but if he can overcome his injuries, Thomas has always looked decent when he's had a shot.

I think Sinckler will make it. He's raw and had had disciplinary issues, but I think he'll mature in to a very good impact option from the bench. Kind of like a tight head version of Mako.

Billy Walker also looked good for the U20s too so if he can break through with Sarries he may be another one for the future.

I would be happy with it if Brookes wasn't so out of form.

ATM we have Cole then Hill (Who has a total of what 60 minutes).

Sinkler is a decent prospect but not a 2nd choice back up.

Wilson is out of form
Thomas isn't really a nailed on starter still and has had mixed form.
Agree about Cooper-woolley not being test class IMO.

Billy Walker is behind Figallo, Koch and Du Plessis so can't see him doing a hill next season. Stuart has more chance of getting game time than him.

 

[BPM]

All completely fair points, but I still think we're in a far better place than we were.

I absolutely agree that Brookes and Thomas need to find fitness and form but assuming they do, we have four high quality tight heads with current test experience.

i appreciate Hill has only got a few cameos off the bench so far, but I don't think we could expect that much more given his age.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

All completely fair points, but I still think we're in a far better place than we were.

I absolutely agree that Brookes and Thomas need to find fitness and form but assuming they do, we have four high quality tight heads with current test experience.

i appreciate Hill has only got a few cameos off the bench so far, but I don't think we could expect that much more given his age.

But that's sort of my point we have a 2nd choice TH who isn't ready.

If Cole was to get injured now we would struggle IMO.

Hill has huge potential and in a couple of season i can see him being a starter, but we are still a couple of seasons away.

Just IMO we have 1 viable starter @ TH ATM.

 

[BPM]

I can see your point but we don't play again for a fair while yet. Brookes has a few months yet to acquire some form.

On another note, what are your thoughts on Tom Youngs being given the Tigers' captaincy? I'm a fan and I still think he has something to offer at test level and presumably being captain underlines that he's first choice ahead of McGuigan and Thacker.

I suspect he'll have a tough time convincing Eddie but I don't think it's impossible if he is fit and playing well.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I can see your point but we don't play again for a fair while yet. Brookes has a few months yet to acquire some form.

On another note, what are your thoughts on Tom Youngs being given the Tigers' captaincy? I'm a fan and I still think he has something to offer at test level and presumably being captain underlines that he's first choice ahead of McGuigan and Thacker.

I suspect he'll have a tough time convincing Eddie but I don't think it's impossible if he is fit and playing well.

Yeh of course was just thinking if things continued as they where.

i'm a big fan of Tom Youngs being made captain he is Tigers through and through and always gives his all.

McGuigan and Thacker are big prospects but not ousting Youngs yet regardless of being captain.

 

[Timbo]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Brookes to become a consistently top class tight head. Hes always struggled To maintain form and fitness.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Brookes to become a consistently top class tight head. Hes always struggled To maintain form and fitness.

He looked in the form of his life for us earlier in the season but after he was injured he looked like he put on 10 stone! Really needs to up his work rate of he wants to play for England again.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He looked in the form of his life for us earlier in the season but after he was injured he looked like he put on 10 stone! Really needs to up his work rate of he wants to play for England again.

You're right, people have such short memories. He was absolutely dominant in most games.

He's just yet another example of someone struggling to regain form after injury; it took Launch a fair while too. As long as he listens to what Eddie is saying about fitness he'll be fine.

 

[BPM]

Between the two, I think Hill is the better long term prospect, although a fit Brookes would be a huge asset. I guess it also depends who is starting for Saints and how well they're playing.


As much as I wouldn't want us to be reliant on Hill at this stage in his career, IIRC, Cole was around the same age when he came through as first choice.


Hill still has the benefit of being the back-up to Cole for a little while yet, but I would like to see him get a start or two under his belt. The Fiji game would work for example.


If fit, Brookes has the edge in experience that would make me more comfortable about starting him against stronger opposition if Cole is unavailable.