England EPS 2016/17 season.

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Hasnt he already said he's not interested in leaving ospreys early?

That could well be just to keep the Ospreys happy though. Maybe not, but I'm sure a contract offer from a decent English club could change his mind.

Why was it that he moved to Wales in the first place? He must've been offered contracts and Uni Scholarships in England...

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm pretty sure I read that he's decided to put his studies first - he chose Cardiff as the best uni for his course then approached Ospreys, not the other way round.

I think that's really admirable and an attitude that should have been encouraged by the RFU - I'm disappointed they didn't invoke exceptional circumstances, personally

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He is only 19/20 i mean it's not like time isn't on his side.

He will be 21/22 when he finishes his studies and his contract.

 

[BPM]

I'm pretty sure I read that he's decided to put his studies first - he chose Cardiff as the best uni for his course then approached Ospreys, not the other way round.

I think that's really admirable and an attitude that should have been encouraged by the RFU - I'm disappointed they didn't invoke exceptional circumstances, personally

Also I doubt that playing for England at senior level even went through his head 2 years or so when he was leaving school and making a decision on which uni to go to.

I don't mind him being schooled in Wales. The Welsh back row is always competitive and so it should prove to be a good learning experience.

I'm sure Wales may try to turn his head when he's eligible, but he knows that Eddie wants to pick him and he's also gone on record to say he's English and wants to play for England.

Almost like a reverse version of Ross Moriarty (although hopefully better).

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He is only 19/20 i mean it's not like time isn't on his side.

He will be 21/22 when he finishes his studies and his contract.

Very true, but equally there is an opening now and sometimes it's about seizing the moment - the Ospreys will understand that even if they don't like it. I like that he's studying and won't be just another identikit academy product who only knows of rugby.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Very true, but equally there is an opening now and sometimes it's about seizing the moment - the Ospreys will understand that even if they don't like it. I like that he's studying and won't be just another identikit academy product who only knows of rugby.

This is a very good point. If Underhill remains in Wales, by the time he returns to England, Evans could've settled in as the "Young 7," and may even be a starter (granted, that's a long shot).

It's admirable that Underhill is fulfilling his Ospreys contract and is focusing on his studies, but his England opportunity won't be around forever.

On a slightly different note, how effective is he in the line out? Obviously he's a 7 so I'm not expecting anything special, but what I'm really asking is, can he jump?

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/ryan-appointed-head-international-player-development/

Interdasting.

Could be a good fit - interviews I've seen with him whilst in charge of Wuss, suggest to me that he feels that clubs could/should be more "controlled" or directed by the RFU.

 

[BPM]

Clever move by Ryan - it's an area we're already seeing lots of success in and he must be thinking that it lines him up nicely as a potential successor to Eddie.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Possibly, I think he's been gunning for this for a while though - he's always talked about the need for the clubs to line up with England development.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

i'm really liking the whole system Eddie Jones is getting in place.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He looks so much like Martin Shaw

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Watching the Pro rugby would it be in English rugby interest to try and use it for development?

For example this season we could of sent players like Ludlam, Alo, Hobbs-Awoyemi, Morris, Earle, Chisholm, Packman, Beckett, Hills, Lundberg, Woolstencroft, ludlow etc etc.

Esp if they expand the league next season they will be trying to look for more depth.

Could help cover that area after U20's where players are 21/22 and still not quite ready for regular AP rugby, and whilst AP clubs might not want to send them away during the season to keep them for depth reason, they might be more willing to in release them end of season.

Just a thought, considering it ends at a good time for Preseason ATM.

 

[Peat]

I'd rather send them to play club rugby in NZ/Aus/SA tbh.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I can't see the advantage in shipping them off to a different country. At their age most will be studying in England aswell, and when they're 19-20 they can't be expected to leave their family and friends.

It's important to see them as people as well as players.

 

[Peat]

I can't see the advantage in shipping them off to a different country. At their age most will be studying in England aswell, and when they're 19-20 they can't be expected to leave their family and friends.

It's important to see them as people as well as players.

Why not? Plenty of people emigrate temporarily at that age for career opportunities/new experiences. Obviously you shouldn't force anyone to do that but I don't see anything wrong with making it very clear its in their best interests.

And we don't have enough gametime for promising young players in this country at the moment. Encouraging players to head off for the summer to get some gametime would seem an obvious patch to that (and does happen a bit already).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I can't see the advantage in shipping them off to a different country. At their age most will be studying in England aswell, and when they're 19-20 they can't be expected to leave their family and friends.

It's important to see them as people as well as players.

I said 21/22 year olds who are not getting game time like Alo etc etc. studies would likely be finished and at the age where they might like a few months playing rugby abroad for experience.

I'd rather send them to play club rugby in NZ/Aus/SA tbh.

Same but outside the odd player it wouldn't happen as they have their own players and generally the depth.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't know where would want to take them though. As you said, SANZAR already have enough depth and 21-22 year old English players would be lucky to get in the bench. The USA wouldn't really work as I thought the whole idea of it was to develop American players. Not just to get a shipment of young English ones. With the other Lions countries there's a risk of attempted poaching and again, it's questionable as to whether they'd get much game time or whether the WRU/IRFU would let them take on many young English players when their aim is to develop players for the respective countries (Wales in particular will be focusing on their own players after the Chiefs embarrassment). So if we send our young players to other countries we may be looking at Arg, France or Japan. All of which require learning new languages. I say just keep them in England, close to home so we can develop them ourselves.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Think the idea of pro rugby is for it to gain popularity first and foremost, even the founder of the comp has said it is something he is looking at and even looking to bring in SA youngsters and ITM players for the summer to help raise the depth quality.
also the players would still be contracted to their AP clubs but just loaned during summer so no risk of poaching.
Yeh they might not get much game time but ATM they are not getting any game time in England.
France is a no no, Argentina are wanting to develop only own players.

It's fine saying keep them in England to develop is fine for a few players IMO but is very short sighted for the majority of 21/22 year olds, England national team is going to be fine as is the clubs whatever happens but i don't see the harm in it or why someone would be against it personally.

Unless we have a proper A league set up whcih isn't happening anytime soon.

 

[Peat]

But we're not developing them well enough. That's the point. There's a lot of young players getting insufficient game time. Obviously we should be working to improve that based on what we have but encouraging guys to go elsewhere for short spells is a decent way around both short and long term.

And I believe a lot of young English players could get a game at Currie Cup/NPC level or the one below and benefit from it. Maybe not if we send twenty over every summer, but if 2 or 3 guys look into it, opportunities will probably be there. Its not like there aren't examples of guys from England clawing their way up over there as it is.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

But we're not developing them well enough. That's the point. There's a lot of young players getting insufficient game time. Obviously we should be working to improve that based on what we have but encouraging guys to go elsewhere for short spells is a decent way around both short and long term.

And I believe a lot of young English players could get a game at Currie Cup/NPC level or the one below and benefit from it. Maybe not if we send twenty over every summer, but if 2 or 3 guys look into it, opportunities will probably be there. Its not like there aren't examples of guys from England clawing their way up over there as it is.

Earle is doing it by the sounds of it with Canterbury this season, i'm Sure a player like Morris would get game time in one.

I mean i would love a proper A league setup for players who are 18 - 23 with the odd squad player in it. But doesn't seem to universally wanted by the clubs.

It's alright if they are getting regular game time in the championship but after 20+ clubs tend to keep them to cover depth.