England becoming contenders

[TedParker]

While many of the six nations teams are losing key players, England are welcoming back many of their key men. Manu Tuilagi, Courtney Lawes and Toby Flood should all be fit for Wales at Twickenham. Do you think this will make a big difference and who should or shouldn't miss out due to returns?

 

[Robert Prosser]

I dont think it will make much difference in the next game as Wales will be back to full strength albeit minus North if he dont recover, but it could make a difference in the final position of the standings come the end of the tournement, also who they going to take out Tuilagi is a good player but as the one playing in his position done badly no they are in there on merit now and deserve their chance to stay there.

Personally I think England need a lot of strengthening from watching their first two games and they need more than what they got coming back to be a force.

 

[TedParker]

Barritt and Tuilagi seem to play the same game and Farrell shouldn't be changed. And does Hodgson's double merit a third test?

 

[Saintjay]

I am trying to work at who in the squad has experience at palying and beating Wales and who in the Wales squad played in the two WC warm up games. At least half the England squad at a guess and that should bring a little confidence to the new lads.

 

[Robert Prosser]

I am trying to work at who in the squad has experience at palying and beating Wales and who in the Wales squad played in the two WC warm up games. At least half the England squad at a guess and that should bring a little confidence to the new lads.

The Wales squad pretty much all have experience of playing against and beating England so confidence wise they will be well up for it but this deviates from this thread so I will keep this for a different thread.

Hodgson will probably get the third test now because of the double.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Barritt and Tuilagi seem to play the same game and Farrell shouldn't be changed. And does Hodgson's double merit a third test?

I don't think Hodgson deserves a third test based on the two tries, however I do think he deserves it based on him being a better 10 than Farrell.
IMO it should be Hodgson at 10 and Flood/Farrell fighting over the 21 shirt (with Barritt/Tuilagi at 12/13).

 

[SelimNiai]

*muffled laughing*

When you on stage next?

 

[Teh Mite]

The problem with Enligh rugby is we don't know how to breed 12s (well, not since Greenwood at least). No McAlastairs bred around here. Instead it's either a crash-bang-hit-up player (which is fine when there's a fast side-stepper playing outside - We don't have any of those) or an out-of-position fly half at 2nd reciever (we have plenty of those, and that's a common tactic which doesn't work).

If only Rob Andrew hadn't ruined Matt Tait so young, we could be laughing with a Flood-Barratt/Tuilagi/Allen-Tait combo.

Alas, no. We'll have a kicking fly-half at centre (which is precisely how things would be if Wilkinson had played 12, plenty of people were begging for that as I recall) and play kick-chase till bored.

*sigh*

 

[Olliekooga]

I dont think it will make much difference in the next game as Wales will be back to full strength albeit minus North if he dont recover, but it could make a difference in the final position of the standings come the end of the tournement, also who they going to take out Tuilagi is a good player but as the one playing in his position done badly no they are in there on merit now and deserve their chance to stay there.

Personally I think England need a lot of strengthening from watching their first two games and they need more than what they got coming back to be a force.

What?

Is this some sort of zen buddhist mind thing like the sound of one hand clapping or something?

So what your saying is Wales will be back to full strength... unless they're not?

 

[Robert Prosser]

What?

Is this some sort of zen buddhist mind thing like the sound of one hand clapping or something?

So what your saying is Wales will be back to full strength... unless they're not?

No so if North is not fit we will still be pretty muc full strength one player dont make a team there are 15 players on the pitch we got Byrne an accomplished international to come in at fullback and move Halfpenny to wing, so by looking at it that way losing North would be a blow but its not exactly weakening us like we have been recently with Warburton, Wyn-Jones, Jenkins, Lydiate etc being out, when a team loses one players they should be able to carry on the same when a team loses 5 or 6 players then that causes a problem as it disrupts the team.

Anyway like I said this thread is about England not wales lets not deviate away from what the purpose of this thread is for, which I do believe is people to discuss weather England are now contenders or not.

 

[TedParker]

Alas, no. We'll have a kicking fly-half at centre (which is precisely how things would be if Wilkinson had played 12, plenty of people were begging for that as I recall) and play kick-chase till bored.

*sigh*

 

[Saintjay]

No so if North is not fit we will still be pretty muc full strength one player dont make a team there are 15 players on the pitch we got Byrne an accomplished international to come in at fullback and move Halfpenny to wing, so by looking at it that way losing North would be a blow but its not exactly weakening us like we have been recently with Warburton, Wyn-Jones, Jenkins, Lydiate etc being out, when a team loses one players they should be able to carry on the same when a team loses 5 or 6 players then that causes a problem as it disrupts the team.

Anyway like I said this thread is about England not wales lets not deviate away from what the purpose of this thread is for, which I do believe is people to discuss weather England are now contenders or not.

It is ineresting when you compare the two teams. It is horrible facing a team when you know you are going to lose. For instance do many teams go to Eden Park expecting to win?.

It is a much nicer place to have players in your team that have played against your opponents and won. I would sooner be with several guys who can say "We have beat these before, we know we can beat them again". Rather than having every time we play this lot we get stuffed at the back of your mind. With the England players coming back you will have more experience as winners. This of course is the same for the Wales team I might add.

 

[TedParker]

I reckon based on a previous comment with someone referring to a recking ball 12 accompanied by a fast footed outside centre. I think Anthony Watson the England U20 is the answer to the outside centre query. Obviously not yet but in a year or 2 from now he could be the next Mathew Tait. Hopefully he will be managed better though.

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

England have have showed commendable character but precious little quality so far.They have shown sound defence,albeit against two teams who struggle to score tries at the best of times.Will be a tough game for Wales but I think we will prevail.Would be interesting to know the last year we went to Twickenham as favourites.

 

[Nathaniel Langham]

The balance in the back row and the centres is not good at the moment (Which is plain to see at both the breakdown and lack of cohesion in backline movements) and Youngs needs to have a rest from the England team as his form has been terrible. Manu Tuilagi, Courtney Lawes and Toby Flood will improve the team but not fix these problems.

Tuilagi with the right centre partner could be devastating but England seem to lack a 10 and 12 that can bring a backline to life.

 

[j_remos]

England seem to lack a 10 and 12 that can bring a backline to life.

Yes, but we all knew exactly what we would get from this Saracens setup. Win, but win ugly.

I think in the short term Flood/Barritt/Tuliagi is the best option we got. If we are going to play a defensive/crash 12 then Barritt seems to be a very solid solution but with Flood and Tuliagi we might just be able to create something for the wingers to get involved in.

This does all however hang on Flood finding some kind of form pretty quick.

 

[Olliekooga]

No so if North is not fit we will still be pretty muc full strength one player dont make a team there are 15 players on the pitch we got Byrne an accomplished international to come in at fullback and move Halfpenny to wing, so by looking at it that way losing North would be a blow but its not exactly weakening us like we have been recently with Warburton, Wyn-Jones, Jenkins, Lydiate etc being out, when a team loses one players they should be able to carry on the same when a team loses 5 or 6 players then that causes a problem as it disrupts the team.

Anyway like I said this thread is about England not wales lets not deviate away from what the purpose of this thread is for, which I do believe is people to discuss weather England are now contenders or not.

Have I slipped into a parallel universe?

If a player who is normally picked (i.e. North) is not available then surely the team will not be at full strength. They may have an accomplished deputy but that is not the same, especially if that deputy is replacing someone as big, quick and talented as North

 

[Aedaphon]

I reckon based on a previous comment with someone referring to a recking ball 12 accompanied by a fast footed outside centre. I think Anthony Watson the England U20 is the answer to the outside centre query. Obviously not yet but in a year or 2 from now he could be the next Mathew Tait. Hopefully he will be managed better though.

Well if we're throwing about players that have that kind of outside centre flair Matt Hopper springs to mind. Admittedly he has only just broken into the Saxons but from his form at Quins he seems a hell of a lot more likely to make the jump than an U20 player.

But he's very unlikely to get picked anyway.

Manu Tuilagi is our best outside centre- no matter how well Barritt has been playing there Tuilagi is the one player in the England squad who can consistently make a clean break. Alongside Flood with his half breaks, Tuilagi is the critical player in gaining the yards for England.

We haven't looked like we have the potential to work the backline through for a try yet this 6 Nations. That said, I would be a little more comfortable putting Tuilagi in off the bench for the next game.

Anyone think Foden's sub-standard (by his usually very solid standard) performance warrants a Mike Brown start?

 

[racingmetrofan]

As long as they seem able to play, Farrell should be out, Flood on the Bench, and Tulagi in at 13 (with Barritt at 12). Lawes to come in for Botha.

 

[HowieLO6]

I reckon based on a previous comment with someone referring to a recking ball 12 accompanied by a fast footed outside centre. I think Anthony Watson the England U20 is the answer to the outside centre query. Obviously not yet but in a year or 2 from now he could be the next Mathew Tait. Hopefully he will be managed better though.

If you're watching U20 games - and I'm assuming you do - you should note that Daly is by far and away a superior - currently - option as a promotable outside back. Watson is fleet-footed, sure, but doesn't have the passing/creativity of the Wasps man.

Assuming that the English game doesn't hammer out Watson's potential, there should be opportunities presenting themselves in a few years, but I'd take the versatile Daly in the centres over Watson. Could well be a long-term option at 12 - previous experience at 10/12, very good goal-kicker, the pace to play in the Premiership on the wing - but still too early.

That said, for those for whom the Super 15 is their bread and butter, what was it that brought O'Connor into the Aus setup at such a young age? The prevalence of the hard pitches and wide running game?