England becoming contenders

[welshglory]

I thought Watson is a fullback/wing? He wouldn't suit centre in the adult game.

 

[TedParker]

If you're watching U20 games - and I'm assuming you do - you should note that Daly is by far and away a superior - currently - option as a promotable outside back. Watson is fleet-footed, sure, but doesn't have the passing/creativity of the Wasps man.

Assuming that the English game doesn't hammer out Watson's potential, there should be opportunities presenting themselves in a few years, but I'd take the versatile Daly in the centres over Watson. Could well be a long-term option at 12 - previous experience at 10/12, very good goal-kicker, the pace to play in the Premiership on the wing - but still too early.

That said, for those for whom the Super 15 is their bread and butter, what was it that brought O'Connor into the Aus setup at such a young age? The prevalence of the hard pitches and wide running game?

I do also agree with you on Daly, i remember seeing him on his premiership debut and he pretty much dominated the game and he must of been 18 back then. You also being a Warriors fan do you think Matt Kvesic warrants a place in a near future England side?

 

[j'nuh]

The problem with Enligh rugby is we don't know how to breed 12s (well, not since Greenwood at least). No McAlastairs bred around here. Instead it's either a crash-bang-hit-up player (which is fine when there's a fast side-stepper playing outside - We don't have any of those) or an out-of-position fly half at 2nd reciever (we have plenty of those, and that's a common tactic which doesn't work).

Hopefully in the next year, Tuilagi will learn more of the trades of being a 12 and Trinder will continue to improve at 13 - that could be one of the better and more balanced center partnerships around. Only trouble is that both are in the EPS now so they're obviously going to start playing like crap.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Urgh, I really really really really hope Tuilagi doesn't become a 12.
He's the best 13 in England, why **** it up?

 

[Luimneach18]

Not according to Jonathan Davies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...wards-at-Twickenham-says-Jonathan-Davies.html

 

[Toby Faletau-Jones]

Not according to Jonathan Davies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...wards-at-Twickenham-says-Jonathan-Davies.html

I think he meant backs haha. Very unusual of Jiffy, he is usual impartial.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Fingers crossed North is out and Hook starts at fullback - if we're going to persist with kicking the ball away all day I'd rather Hook running it back than Halfpenny.
And if Hook wants to go back to his roots of throwing intercept passes all day long, that'd be grand.

I think he meant backs haha. Very unusual of Jiffy, he is usual inpartial.

????? Since when?

It was on Scrum V on Sunday, he said this. Article makes it sound more, i dunno, malicious? than it was actually said though.

 

[Saintjay]

Not according to Jonathan Davies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...wards-at-Twickenham-says-Jonathan-Davies.html

I love the wee fella. I can't see Englands pack getting smashed by Wales well not to the extent he seems to think. Scotlands pack was better than Wales at the weekend in my opinion.

England should have at least parity in the set plays, as for Wales having the better second row erm not sure about that one it depends on who is fit for both teams.

 

[psychic duck]

Fingers crossed North is out and Hook starts at fullback - if we're going to persist with kicking the ball away all day I'd rather Hook running it back than Halfpenny.
And if Hook wants to go back to his roots of throwing intercept passes all day long, that'd be grand.

A little stat for you then from this 6 Nations

Points scored with Hook on pitch = 42
Points scored with Hook off pitch = 8

 

[Toby Faletau-Jones]

A little stat for you then from this 6 Nations

Points scored with Hook on pitch = 42
Points scored with Hook off pitch = 8

Hooks crap buddy. Whenever he comes on, i always get the feeling that we might lose, i just don't trust him. He's to nampy pampy or whatever they say, and lacks courage at times especially under the high balls.

If North isn't playing, then i would be inclined to include Byrne, he is pretty good under the high ball, and is reliable. However, North should be alright, probably only a sprained ankle. I don't really know how long they take to heal, so im guessing.

Sorry to hi-jack the England thread guys, but yeah if England can pick up their game; no doubt they can be contenders. I feel the Wales game could be the turning point, if they beat Wales, they could face a tired France, and im not sure whether they are at home to Ireland, but if they are then they could do that too. Thus therefore they are contenders.

 

[retardedgenius]

i laughed when i read the ***le of this thread. you have struggled past the two worse teams in the tournament won from charged down kicks each time. you didn't even look like creating a try against either italy or scotland

 

[Toby Faletau-Jones]

i laughed when i read the ***le of this thread. you have struggled past the two worse teams in the tournament won from charged down kicks each time. you didn't even look like creating a try against either italy or scotland

If i Read this before the weekend i would have honestly agreed with you. But Scotland's performance on Sunday completely changed my perception of them. A brilliant performance they put in and one in which you Scots should be proud of. There is a bright future up in Scotland with the young talent such as Hogg coming through.

But England have a really good chance, because although Scotland played well, Wales were shocking especially in the first half. Our defence was the worst i have seen for a while. Normally, we would concede maybe 2/ at the max 3 line breaks a game, but against you guys it was nearer the 2 digits - i think.

I just hope all the Welsh hype confidence doesn't come to bit 'us' on the arse. Especially, now all the band wagon "Wales are crap" people jump on with their annoying accents - The benefit of having a hybrid neutral accent.

 

[Saintjay]

i laughed when i read the ***le of this thread. you have struggled past the two worse teams in the tournament won from charged down kicks each time. you didn't even look like creating a try against either italy or scotland

If you read the starting posts it is clear that it is more of a debate regarding Englands chances of being contenders.

I do think that given how well Scotland have been playing for England to come away with a win at Murrayfield is looking an even better result.

 

[bushytop]

Whether England are or aren't contenders can only be answered once they have played Wales, as beating the two traditional wooden spoon combatants does not a good team make.

I think everyone agrees England will improve time (& the inclusion of Morgan & Dickson from the start) but will the improvement come quick enough?

With regards 10, 12, 13... Farrell, Tuilagi, Barritt. Farrell does seem to be the future so don't dent his progress now (also his defense in the 10 channel would be important against the giant backs of Wales. Tuilagi has to play as if he doesn't England has no offensive threat in its back division (Foden, Ashton would be a threat if there was any sort of offensive game plan which involved them). Barritt as his defence has seemed solid and as stated previously it will be required against Roberts, Davies, Cuthbert, North (fingers crossed) all of which adhere to a offensive strategy which maximises their strengths.

As a Welshman this is the first time in my 33 years that I feel Wales are justifiably favourites going to Twickenham and I don't think St. George will slay this dragon even though the favourite tag hasn't traditionally sat well with us.

 

[TedParker]

i laughed when i read the ***le of this thread. you have struggled past the two worse teams in the tournament won from charged down kicks each time. you didn't even look like creating a try against either italy or scotland

I think England get treated quite unfairly on the whole, we beat Scotland with 6 debutants away at Murrayfield, something that hasn't been achieved for 8 years. So we might have appeared to have struggled but we have got two wins under our belt. I can imagine the hysteria if Scotland or Italy had gone to Twickenham with 6 debutants and pulled off a win even be it with a slender margin.
I don't think we can pass judgement on England until after the Wales game and even if they do lose which is a possibility then that will be just another learning curve for a very young team.

 

[j'nuh]

Urgh, I really really really really hope Tuilagi doesn't become a 12.
He's the best 13 in England, why **** it up?

I'm not saying he should become a 12, just that I'd love him to have the versatility to play both positions. He's young enough to do it and would operate a similar crash-ball game as he does at 13. (He might have to run straighter at times as a gainline breaker rather than looking for gaps, but it shouldn't be too different to how he's playing now.) There's a few reasons to do this. One that with Tuilagi a certainty to start, we could play him at 12 or 13 and pick the next form center in England to partner him (in the long-term, Tuilagi-Trinder). Two is that it gives 12 some cover from the pitch. Three is that it offers us a player who could emulate what Roberts/Nonu brings to Wales/New Zealand.

 

[Aedaphon]

I'm not saying he should become a 12, just that I'd love him to have the versatility to play both positions. He's young enough to do it and would operate a similar crash-ball game as he does at 13. (He might have to run straighter at times as a gainline breaker rather than looking for gaps, but it shouldn't be too different to how he's playing now.) There's a few reasons to do this. One that with Tuilagi a certainty to start, we could play him at 12 or 13 and pick the next form center in England to partner him (in the long-term, Tuilagi-Trinder). Two is that it gives 12 some cover from the pitch. Three is that it offers us a player who could emulate what Roberts/Nonu brings to Wales/New Zealand.

Great as this all is, Tuilagi plays at 13 for Leicester and Barritt plays 12 at Saracens... Why screw about with that?

(And before any smart arses say anything- yes, I know Lancaster has already done that)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Great as this all is, Tuilagi plays at 13 for Leicester and Barritt plays 12 at Saracens... Why screw about with that?

(And before any smart arses say anything- yes, I know Lancaster has already done that)

Agree completely.

Also, while Barritt is a great crashball player, if you tell him to sling the ball around a bit I'm sure he'll have no problem with that. I know he played 10 way back in his youth, and can cover it in an emergency now (though don't think he's actually done it in many years) so has (or at least had) a decent distributing game.

I think 12. Barritt, 13. Tuilagi will be our best centre partnership by a long shot.

 

[psychic duck]

Agree completely.

Also, while Barritt is a great crashball player, if you tell him to sling the ball around a bit I'm sure he'll have no problem with that. I know he played 10 way back in his youth, and can cover it in an emergency now (though don't think he's actually done it in many years) so has (or at least had) a decent distributing game.

I think 12. Barritt, 13. Tuilagi will be our best centre partnership by a long shot.

Barritt is hardly a great crash ball player, Roberts, Lamont, Rougerie, Davies have all made many more yards than he has this 6 Nations

best by a long shot? I think Anthony Allen would have something to say about that, and also maybe some others

Barritt in my opinion is just a short term solution, doubt he will get much more than 15-20 caps

 

[TRF_Olyy]

best by a long shot? I think Anthony Allen would have something to say about that, and also maybe some others

I should've clarified. Best from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Six_Nations_Championship_squads#England