England 2022/23

[Geordie]

Lawes is listed at 115, Ollivon 114 and PSDT 120 so in old money there's about a stone in it. For guys of that size that's not much and relative speed / flexibility are going to be determined more by genetics and fast twitch fibre make up than purely what the scales say.

The breakdown's obviously important and someone closer to the ground will have an inherent advantage. But there's more to flank play than that and I wouldn't discount bigger flankers per se. And what's more important, number of involvements or number of impactful involvements? Would we have fared any better with a more powerful unit at 6 v Fra where Ludlam and Willis came off 2nd best?

If we want a big 6, Ted Hill has his fans but the jury's still out as far as many are concerned.

We could see a rejuvenated Underhill and Pearson's likely to get right in to the mix as a big and physical 7.

One thing's clear. We should soon be seeing a much more physical and skilled back 5 and hallelujah to that!

Yes...ill drink to that!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Sounds like Borthwick gonna get Tom Harrison in for scrum coach role coaching all the age grades

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's gonna be unbolting the seats out of the welford road stands to refit into Twickenham at this rate

 

[Mumbles119]

Ignoring the eternal conundrum England have at 9/10/12…

I am concerned that 8 is also now a position of unknown and concern. Was excited for Dombrandt but ultimately quite disappointed and meh

How likely is a new contender at 8 for the WC? E.g. Mercer, T Willis etc

But then selection balance for back row would potentially change 6/7 too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd be surprised if Mercer doesn't start, tbh - Dombrandt had an underwhelming 6N (not alone in that tbh)
I'd bring in Tom Willis to the EPS as well

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd be surprised if Mercer doesn't start, tbh - Dombrandt had an underwhelming 6N (not alone in that tbh)
I'd bring in Tom Willis to the EPS as well

Agreed.

Binny is now expected to be fit for the RWC. Had Dombrandt taken his chance we might have seen the last of him. But he didn't, so given Mercer & Willis lack of international experience I could see Binny going to the RWC as a squad member. For me it's too important a position for a part time fill in.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Agreed.

Binny is now expected to be fit for the RWC. Had Dombrandt taken his chance we might have seen the last of him. But he didn't, so given Mercer & Willis lack of international experience I could see Binny going to the RWC as a squad member. For me it's too important a position for a part time fill in.

I'd rather have curry or Ludlum cover 8 than waste a squad place on Billy. He's a shadow of the player he used to be and hasn't looked good in an England shirt for a very long time.

 

[Geordie]

Agreed...move on from Billy.

Dombrandt actually wasn't that bad going by his stats but hiw many games do you give him to continue to improve. I'm just not sure he's the one for that position going forward.

For the world cup I'd look to Mercer with him coming back..quality skilled player. But he's not a heavy duty guy, nor Curry so you still need to have a balanced back 5...to compliment the more skilled players. Especially if Itoje is in there aswell. And this is where the debate comes in about Ribbans, Ted Hill and George Martin...

Maybe Sam Underhill being available changes that aswell....

 

[Noonz]

Will there be a new EPS Squad for the Summer tests? I'm not sure how the rules around that work

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not sure what the rules are (don't believe they've ever officially been released) but usually it's an extended training squad pre-rwc so imagine it's relaxed quite a lot

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Despite not living up to expectations, I'd still have Dombrandt over Vunipola. At least with Dombrandt you feel there is that bit of extra potential that just isn't coming through. With Billy V you get a braindead lump who can't even do the 1 thing he is picked for in the first place. Without that, he has absolutely nothing to offer.

Personally I'm in favour of looking at Mercer ASAP and any other.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah I wouldn't have Binny in the EPS
He's experienced enough that if we do have a raft of injuries upto/including the world cup that you could fly him in on the Friday and start him on the Saturday and he'll play the same game as if he'd been there all season so I'd rather the spots be given to players with more potential/current form

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I know Itoje had some good stats but I didn't see anything special. When you compare him to chessum/ Martin/ ribbons etc Itoje doesn't have that X factor or point of difference.

He's not this lump and he's not some super workrate animal.

That being said he did have good stats, so maybe he's doing a specific job asked of him but to me he's playing like a 6 not a lock and it unbalances our pack. Chessum really showed him up and I 100% think Itoje needs dropping (for a few games at least) if only to get him fired up again.

 

[Which Tyler]

Itoje's point of difference used to be his workrate, turnovers, and generally being a pest at the breakdown - so yeah, playing as a 6, but still doing most of the work of a 4 as well.
I had agreed entirely, and called for him to be dropped during the 6N - thinking he'd got complacent and needed a kick up the arse.

But then plenty of information came out that his stats were very very good, and that he was being asked to do a different job, to be the lynchpin lock who gets on with stuff and lets others do the flash stuff.
Unfortunately, where he excels is at the flash stuff; and whilst I'm sure he can the lynchpin stuff as well, I'm also sure we have better option to do that role.
I'd like to experiment in the warm-ups with Martin and Chessum in the row, and Itoje on the bench.
Maybe if he's only on for 30 minutes he'll have enough energy to do the lynchpin stuff AND the flash stuff. Maybe I (and you) were right in the first place, and he really did need a kick up the arse.
Alternatively, Borthwick needs a kick up the arse, and be told to let Itoje do what Itoje does best, and select around him.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

4. martin 5. Chessum
6. Itoje 7. curry
8. Mercer

Then add in Willis, Underhill and Ludlum when you have injuries and that's a pretty decent step up. Then we've got Pearson and T Hill who may get a chance in the summer.


Although I've put a lock at 6 and I don't like that so maybe I take that all back!!!

Then there is laws as well if fit. I'm still worried about our 1,2 & 3 though. Bristol seemed to have sucked the life out of Genge and Sinckler and George/ LCD seem to be injured a lot at the moment.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd still go Lawes at 6 if we were to put a hybrid there - he doesn't look like he's skipped a beat with his time off, and I'm never a fan of playing a player at a different position for country than they play at club, it took Lawes a while to really start making an impact at 6

 

[higgik]

4. martin 5. Chessum
6. Itoje 7. curry
8. Mercer

Then add in Willis, Underhill and Ludlum when you have injuries and that's a pretty decent step up. Then we've got Pearson and T Hill who may get a chance in the summer.


Although I've put a lock at 6 and I don't like that so maybe I take that all back!!!

Then there is laws as well if fit. I'm still worried about our 1,2 & 3 though. Bristol seemed to have sucked the life out of Genge and Sinckler and George/ LCD seem to be injured a lot at the moment.

But with Mercer and Curry also being link men in the main, who is doing the hard stuff of clearing out and tackling.
If Mercer at 8, and I like this option, then Underhill or T Hill at 6 gives better balance.
Itoje needs a grafter besides him in the row or at 6/8.
He actually reminds me of Ian Jones style, but he had the nutters such as Brooke to do the hard work.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

But with Mercer and Curry also being link men in the main, who is doing the hard stuff of clearing out and tackling.
If Mercer at 8, and I like this option, then Underhill or T Hill at 6 gives better balance.
Itoje needs a grafter besides him in the row or at 6/8.
He actually reminds me of Ian Jones style, but he had the nutters such as Brooke to do the hard work.

If Underhill didn't have the injury record he does, I'd be talking about him in nearly all my 23s but in reality I just can't see him being fit and uncuncussed for the WC. Such a shame though as him and Curry make such a good pairing.

You never know, we might see a curry curry 6 and 7 combo!

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Watching the highlights of the Newcastle v Northampton game and I cant understand why Radwaan is not in the England squad. He really is something special.

 

[Reiser99]

Watching the highlights of the Newcastle v Northampton game and I cant understand why Radwaan is not in the England squad. He really is something special.

Think the consensus is defence. He might score you points, but also concede them. He has to score more than he concedes to justify his position.