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England 2022/23

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Also worth pointing out that Hodgson isn't coming in to lead the coaching. He'll be tasked with specifics, in an area where the specifics dovetail really, really well from League.
 
Which Tyler said:
Also worth pointing out that Hodgson isn't coming in to lead the coaching. He'll be tasked with specifics, in an area where the specifics dovetail really, really well from League.
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You still need to fully understand all the nuances. That only comes with experience. This is the top level where finer points matter.

Also, the players need to buy into him. He hasn't got the track record in union for for that to happen immediately - he'll have to earn that trust and respect. Quite apart from the natural amount of time it always takes to adapt to a different way of doing things.

They'll also look at Wikipedia and see the below from his own sport. This does not feel blue chip.

On 25 November 2020, Hodgson was named as the new head coach of Hull F.C.Hodgson's reign at Hull F.C. got off to a good start as the club only lost once in their opening seven matches. However, the club ended the season winning only one game (against Hull Kingston Rovers) from the last nine fixtures to finish 8th on the table.[33]​ In September 2022, Hodgson stepped down as head coach of Hull F.C. by mutual consent. The club finished ninth on the table and missed the playoffs for a second consecutive season.[34]​

It may be easier for ex RL to be successful with defence but surely you have to earn spurs first as Edwards did?
 
Which Tyler said:
Also worth pointing out that Hodgson isn't coming in to lead the coaching. He'll be tasked with specifics, in an area where the specifics dovetail really, really well from League.
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None of this really stands up to scrutiny, though.

Seibold (no previous RU experience) has been England defence coach since September 2021 according to Wikipedia (I know...) He's done the job for 14 months. we've just shipped a first phase try to Argentina, at least in part because the defence was too narrow and didn't work hard enough to prevent it. He's now on his bike.

He's being replaced by Brett Hodgson (no RU experience except for as a kicking coach with Sale Sharks) who is described by Eddie Jones as "a talented, hard-working young coach who is developing." (I got that from loverugbyleague.com). Apparently "He'll continue the good work that Anthony Seibold has done since he joined us."

What do RL coaches know about breakdowns? Where's the experience, let alone mastery?

Now that suggests he's not going to change anything. If he needs to change stuff, what was Seibold doing? If he doesn't need to change stuff, why are we not already France under Shaun Edwards?

Why do we need a coach who 'is developing'? Why can't the RFU attract a talented and developed coach? "He coaches rugby league, he must be great at defence" is a terribly unsophisticated approach for coach recruitment. We have absolutely no idea whether he can be of any use or not, because he has no experience, either as a player or coach, nor did we with the last one. It's breaststrokers coaching Olympic freestylers again.
 
Old Hooker said:
You still need to fully understand all the nuances. That only comes with experience. This is the top level where finer points matter.

Also, the players need to buy into him. He hasn't got the track record in union for for that to happen immediately - he'll have to earn that trust and respect. Quite apart from the natural amount of time it always takes to adapt to a different way of doing things.

They'll also look at Wikipedia and see the below from his own sport. This does not feel blue chip.

On 25 November 2020, Hodgson was named as the new head coach of Hull F.C.Hodgson's reign at Hull F.C. got off to a good start as the club only lost once in their opening seven matches. However, the club ended the season winning only one game (against Hull Kingston Rovers) from the last nine fixtures to finish 8th on the table.[33]​ In September 2022, Hodgson stepped down as head coach of Hull F.C. by mutual consent. The club finished ninth on the table and missed the playoffs for a second consecutive season.[34]​

It may be easier for ex RL to be successful with defence but surely you have to earn spurs first as Edwards did?
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Or this!
 
Wasn't the leagues best defence coach last season a guy that wasn't even coaching in League before doing his first ever defence coach role?
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
Wasn't the leagues best defence coach last season a guy that wasn't even coaching in League before doing his first ever defence coach role?
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But how many International Quality Coaching Unicorns* can England find, consecutively? I'm going to hazard a guess that the answer is 'not very many, actually'...

This idea seems to be prevalent in team selection too. I'm not sure it's coincidence.

* I may copyright this expression.
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
Wasn't the leagues best defence coach last season a guy that wasn't even coaching in League before doing his first ever defence coach role?
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Mike Forshaw been doing an excellent job at Sale as well - he was a Strength and Conditioning coach in League before moving to Union to become a defence coach
 
Why are we changing our defence coach when our attack is the issue...
 
I get the impression no one decent wants to work with jones or jones doesn't want anyone with a good reputation working for him.

The England jobs should be the pinnacle of roles and well paid. We should be getting the best candidates not some Jonny no one.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Mike Forshaw been doing an excellent job at Sale as well - he was a Strength and Conditioning coach in League before moving to Union to become a defence coach
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He's been doing it since about 2013 so has earned his union stripes.

If we're not taking an established international D coach, why isn't someone like him getting a shot at the national job? English, broad background, several years in union. Known entity to the likes of Manu and Curry who can vouch for him to the rest of the squad.
 
Don't Skip Leg Day said:
I get the impression no one decent wants to work with jones or jones doesn't want anyone with a good reputation working for him.

The England jobs should be the pinnacle of roles and well paid. We should be getting the best candidates not some Jonny no one.
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Or both...

But no, apparently International Quality Coaching Unicorns are there for the plucking instead.
 
I particularly enjoyed "we have to learn from the 2019 Rugby World Cup."

The final was <checks Wikipedia> three years and six days ago.

But it's Ok, Eddie has a plan. It's a special plan and you can't see it yet.

We play Argentina again in no years and 344 days.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
The Joe Schmidt tactic of "nah we're not **** we're just waiting for next year"
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1667935979824.png


The size of Eddie's sleeves with all the cards he has kept hidden up there.

Crash Hamster said:
I particularly enjoyed "we have to learn from the 2019 Rugby World Cup."

The final was <checks Wikipedia> three years and six days ago.

But it's Ok, Eddie has a plan. It's a special plan and you can't see it yet.

We play Argentina again in no years and 344 days.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, that final where the majority of penalties came from Vunipola being a **** poor scrummager. So glad we never repeated that mistake.
 
Crash Hamster said:
www.bbc.co.uk

England v Japan: Eddie Jones admits Rugby World Cup focus distracted from Argentina challenge

England's defeat by Argentina was partly caused by too much focus on next year's Rugby World Cup, admits coach Eddie Jones.
www.bbc.co.uk

Latest "aw, mate" from the BBC.
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Ah, the old World Cup focus.

That's alright then. Book King Chas for the investiture, prepare the fourth plinth on Trafalgar Square for the statue.

The class of 03 prepared with a GS and beating the tri nations home and away, even giving the ABs a 2 man head start. AWAY AND STILL WINNING. More traditional than low mid table 6N, losing to Argentina at home for only the 2nd time ever and RL coaches, but each to their own.

And that's before we challenge the premise that the RWC is the be all and end all anyway. It's not for me.

Oh, and if we're talking RWC success you generally need to tick off settled (players and coaches), experienced, used to winning especially against top opponents, a clear game plan backed up by plans B&C, supreme fitness, a don't screw with us aura and several world XV players. I'll give us half a mark for having a few quite experienced players - not that the best is being got out of them. Still they're going to have some frank, but non blaming, discussions this week so that's OK.

And I really need to stop getting so bloody irritated by this. It's only a silly game with a funny shaped ball.
 
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