Aviva Premiership - Round 1

[Wendigo7]

Thought the game was quite ****ly but like you rats I've just watched the match as well.

Ford played quite well, but I thought it was a case of what Danny was doing he did better. The fact he left Cipriani for dead for the try, drew the fullback and Roko finished well in the corner put paid to that as well. His goalkicking was good, 2 50+ metre kicks, although none really close to the touchline. Still decent though.

Your right there was alot of knock ons. Arscott sure was kicking alot of up and unders as was McLean. Shame, both sides looked decent ball in hand so I don't know why the incessant need to kick. Joseph was decent. The first try though was poor from Sale. Ford and Watson didn't need to do anything extravagant. It was a decent kick from Ford but it was definitely defendable even if Watson outjumped his man, he should never break tackles that easy and stroll in.

 

[Peat]

I don't think Watson even outjumped his man. McLean barely moved. Just didn't seem aware of where Watson was at all and as a result served it up on a plate.

Really looking forwards to getting a gander at the Sarries-Pests match. I feel that the early season previews might have discounted Wasps a bit lightly. On paper, their first choice pack is actually seriously good and there's some depth in some positions. They've got more raw pace out wide than anyone. The new Kiwi 12 has a bit of a rep. The half-backs are a little shaky, but I think they're making serious progress. What I was able to see of their match, they showed some real quality at times.

edit: Whatever Lancaster's previous intentions with Ford, I think Burns' superior international experience/incumbency means he has the edge as chief challenger to Farrell, and he's probably got the best platform of all to make the case.

 

[goodNumber10]

The last try was great - Kyle at 1stR... stab pass behind a screen runner* to Ford, who waltzes through a gap and puts Roko away.


*I don't know whether anyone else uses those terms, but that's what I call them!

it makes sense.

Most coaching material i've seen calls it a "Block and Slide" (runner behind is a slider), also just seen it referred to as masked passing.

Never ceases to amaze me how different the terminology is dependent on where you are form/play etc... like a 10/12 switch (scissors) ALL the Kiwis I've played with have called it a 1/2 switch (for obvious reasons). A pass behind the man always used to be called a "p*ss off ball" . Aussies use punch groups we use Pod system and so on...

As long as it gets the point across it don't matter.

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't think Watson even outjumped his man. McLean barely moved. Just didn't seem aware of where Watson was at all and as a result served it up on a plate.

Really looking forwards to getting a gander at the Sarries-Pests match. I feel that the early season previews might have discounted Wasps a bit lightly. On paper, their first choice pack is actually seriously good and there's some depth in some positions. They've got more raw pace out wide than anyone. The new Kiwi 12 has a bit of a rep. The half-backs are a little shaky, but I think they're making serious progress. What I was able to see of their match, they showed some real quality at times.

Seemed to be the same problems for Wasps though, some blistering play going forward but a genuine lack of cohesion in defence - which has was frankly been their trade mark for the last decade or so.

edit: Whatever Lancaster's previous intentions with Ford, I think Burns' superior international experience/incumbency means he has the edge as chief challenger to Farrell, and he's probably got the best platform of all to make the case.

agreed. And this was the point i was trying to make earlier.

Double post! soz!

 

[ratsapprentice]

The Sarries/Wasps game was interesting.

Wasps will take a lot more positives from it, I think. They were pretty impressive, and Sarries weren't, particularly.
If Miller hadn't had a shocker trying to reclaim the ball for Strettle's first try (and it was a shocker) then the score in the first half would have been far more representative.

And yes, Peat... Leiua is going to add a lot to their team. Huge amounts of power and pace at 12 is one of the things their team is crying out for and he's got it in spades.
Tagicakibau is also a great addition for that reason too - his power was very useful to them yesterday, boshed Ashton 3-4 times and caused a bit of panic in the wide channels.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Wasps will be a horrible team too play if they keep everyone fit, the backs are just so fast and technically good that they had us for toast for the whole second half. Wade was brilliant for them and they used him very wisely. As for Miller on Strettle's try, he just over ran the ball and Strettle moved him out the way. IMO I thought Wade's try shouldn't have been allowed when he shoulder barged Ashton when he went for the ball, but I guess after giving Strettles for similar he was always gonna give wades.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Miller's always been pretty suspect on defence, both tackling and position wise.

 

[ratsapprentice]

IMO I thought Wade's try shouldn't have been allowed when he shoulder barged Ashton when he went for the ball, but I guess after giving Strettles for similar he was always gonna give wades.

That's completely legal - it's only illegal if you use your arms to push someone.
Shoulder to shoulder is fine.

 

[Toby Sweeney]

We will find out before the NZ game. I have a suspicion long term Lanny wants to see Ford at 10, Farrell at 12. If we refer to Sarries game, Sarries defensive coach played a blinder. In the quins game it was largely Ford vs Quins, the rest of the bath side (I'm a quins fan as you can tell) were being out played by ourselves. I see him very much more in the style of Carter with the ability to be as good, but I think that might just come with game time. For what it's worth Ford was penned to start 2 of England's games in NZ at fly half, Lancaster admitted as much prior to the tour and I don't think too much changed. I would also note in the games he did play poorly his pack were thoroughly beaten at the breakdown and matched their physicality, most fly halves, Carter aside can't control a game that way.

I also think you might well see a Ford/Farrell Axis very soon. Don't know if it will still stick, but I'd be surprised if Ford isn't the 10 by the end of the 6Ns.

As for Quins performance today, we were dire. 16 penalties in a row must be a record or something. It was actually quite easy going but our discipline was shocking. Yarde looked good as did Robbo, but Marler and Sinckler's discipline in particular was rubbish. Brown played well in patches. Blair Cowan can top his hat he was very, very good for LI. Poor scrummaging for ourselves, lack of discipline and LI really making life hard and Geraghty kicking very, very well, it made it hard to watch. His 60 metre kick was very unlucky and deserved to go over.

Can we poach Nathan Hughes now? He, Morgan and Billy V would be a lovely set of 8s to have for the World Cup. I think BTSport alluded to him being available now although I thought he was a year away.

Sometimes this forum amazes me......

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I don't think Watson even outjumped his man. McLean barely moved. Just didn't seem aware of where Watson was at all and as a result served it up on a plate.

The new Kiwi 12 has a bit of a rep. QUOTE]

Samoan actually dude. Though, the Kiwis are interested!

Was completely gutted to lose the game yesterday.
IMO, we're better and stronger than last year but the same issues remain; we can't close games out, our ball retention is not good enough, our decision making can be questionable, and we tend to lose structure where we need it.

We could have won that game in the last 5 minutes when we were 5 out from the Sarries line; but Simpson had no clue what to do, we didn't put enough numbers into the next breakdown, and very predictably got penalised. What a chance gone. We're far from the only team to not put enough numbers into the breakdown when in the opposition 22 but we're not good enough at battering down the door through the forwards.

And why is our defence one big turnstyle?
Olyy you're right about Wade, he had a defensive shocker.
Miller was poor, but defensively and also in just running into brick walls.
Gaskell kept going backwards in the tackle which isn't great when you're playing as a lock.
Daly looked lively but does sometimes drift too much and deprives the wingers of space.
Hughes showed class but as usual gave away a few soft penalties - he doesn't seem to get the rule about not entering a maul from the side.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Have to say... I've warmed to the Weepu signing somewhat since it was announced.

 

[Patchey]

Have to say... I've warmed to the Weepu signing somewhat since it was announced.

So far I'm feeling fairly vindicated in my excitement about Piri moving to Welsh.

But they're going to have to learn to defend and be more clinical at the breakdown. That try was disappointing.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Entertaining stuff though.

Ewers having a blinder so far.

 

[goodNumber10]

Healy is doing my noggin in. He's such a good analyst but he comes across as so unpleasant it's unreal.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Hill, Ewers and Waldrom are just playing with LW.

 

[Thingimubob]

Whoever is London Welsh's fitness coach hasn't done the best job in preseason... They looked shattered after 20 mins

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Whitten has been playing well - not exactly had much opposition, but he's looking quick and always looking for work.

 

[Peat]

Seemed to be the same problems for Wasps though, some blistering play going forward but a genuine lack of cohesion in defence - which has was frankly been their trade mark for the last decade or so.

While pests can be pourous
I say ignore this
For no one ever made a defence that's flawless
And that organisation can be fixed
Even small guys look good on a blitz
And first day makes anyone look shït
So this could change, if they're sane, work on their d-game
Like Jared Payne scrambling Goode's brain
Because in the main if they get even a little tight
They've really got the quality for the top four fight


This is what happens when I've just woken up and get a bit bored of watching LW get gaped on a halting French stream.

 

[TheSaffycen]

That's completely legal - it's only illegal if you use your arms to push someone.
Shoulder to shoulder is fine.

There enough I didn't know this, i thought you couldn't move the player off their line sort of thing.

Also on Wasps
They played really well dont get me wrong, but we weren't at our best. Hodgson had a really poor game from 10 IMO, he kicked off the tee well but the rest wasn't very good. I also felt that we should have had a couple more penalties at scrum time when the replacements came on. Still you have too concede that your back row just bullied ours and that Ashely Johnson is scary good, and i felt we should have got Wray on quicker too combat the physicality

 

[goodNumber10]

While pests can be pourous
I say ignore this
For no one ever made a defence that's flawless
And that organisation can be fixed
Even small guys look good on a blitz
And first day makes anyone look shït
So this could change, if they're sane, work on their d-game
Like Jared Payne scrambling Goode's brain
Because in the main if they get even a little tight
They've really got the quality for the top four fight


This is what happens when I've just woken up and get a bit bored of watching LW get gaped on a halting French stream.

Are you in France?