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Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Really annoying for LI but I feel like they showed something to build on. Quins will congratulate themselves for getting out of jail and thank god for the removal of Court and Aulika.
 
Tigs Man said:
He played well last season but struggled in the big games, tbh unless he performs well in those types of games I'm wouldn't be to confident in the RWC with him at 10.
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He (we) also struggled against Sale twice.

Peat said:
Really annoying for LI but I feel like they showed something to build on. Quins will congratulate themselves for getting out of jail and thank god for the removal of Court and Aulika.
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I agree, was a decent showing. Collier got absolutely dicked though.
 
We will find out before the NZ game. I have a suspicion long term Lanny wants to see Ford at 10, Farrell at 12. If we refer to Sarries game, Sarries defensive coach played a blinder. In the quins game it was largely Ford vs Quins, the rest of the bath side (I'm a quins fan as you can tell) were being out played by ourselves. I see him very much more in the style of Carter with the ability to be as good, but I think that might just come with game time. For what it's worth Ford was penned to start 2 of England's games in NZ at fly half, Lancaster admitted as much prior to the tour and I don't think too much changed. I would also note in the games he did play poorly his pack were thoroughly beaten at the breakdown and matched their physicality, most fly halves, Carter aside can't control a game that way.

I also think you might well see a Ford/Farrell Axis very soon. Don't know if it will still stick, but I'd be surprised if Ford isn't the 10 by the end of the 6Ns.

As for Quins performance today, we were dire. 16 penalties in a row must be a record or something. It was actually quite easy going but our discipline was shocking. Yarde looked good as did Robbo, but Marler and Sinckler's discipline in particular was rubbish. Brown played well in patches. Blair Cowan can top his hat he was very, very good for LI. Poor scrummaging for ourselves, lack of discipline and LI really making life hard and Geraghty kicking very, very well, it made it hard to watch. His 60 metre kick was very unlucky and deserved to go over.

Can we poach Nathan Hughes now? He, Morgan and Billy V would be a lovely set of 8s to have for the World Cup. I think BTSport alluded to him being available now although I thought he was a year away.
 
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While I agree that Ford/Farrell might be Lancaster's plan, it's a bloody awful one.
 
I disagree about Marler and Sinckler's discipline - they both got yellows for marginal dangerous tackles.
It's not like they were getting pinged all over the park - the commentators were just trying to string a "story" together.


Farrell at 12 (and giving George that problem to deal with) would be utterly soul destroying.
 
Farrell at 12 is not Lancaster's overriding game plan except in emergency/end of a game. He sees them both as 10's and he's made it abundantly clear it's a straight shoot out to the 10 shirt.

I really don't get the Farrell hate, he's a quality player who has seldom let the team down, he puts everything out there and you only have to see POC talking about him on the lions dvd to see how much the boy brings to the game.

As far as i'm concerned there are far more question marks about Ford then there are Farrell that's for certain.

Wendigo7 said:
We will find out before the NZ game. I have a suspicion long term Lanny wants to see Ford at 10, Farrell at 12. If we refer to Sarries game, Sarries defensive coach played a blinder. In the quins game it was largely Ford vs Quins, the rest of the bath side (I'm a quins fan as you can tell) were being out played by ourselves. I see him very much more in the style of Carter with the ability to be as good, but I think that might just come with game time. For what it's worth Ford was penned to start 2 of England's games in NZ at fly half, Lancaster admitted as much prior to the tour and I don't think too much changed. I would also note in the games he did play poorly his pack were thoroughly beaten at the breakdown and matched their physicality, most fly halves, Carter aside can't control a game that way.

I also think you might well see a Ford/Farrell Axis very soon. Don't know if it will still stick, but I'd be surprised if Ford isn't the 10 by the end of the 6Ns.

As for Quins performance today, we were dire. 16 penalties in a row must be a record or something. It was actually quite easy going but our discipline was shocking. Yarde looked good as did Robbo, but Marler and Sinckler's discipline in particular was rubbish. Brown played well in patches. Blair Cowan can top his hat he was very, very good for LI. Poor scrummaging for ourselves, lack of discipline and LI really making life hard and Geraghty kicking very, very well, it made it hard to watch. His 60 metre kick was very unlucky and deserved to go over.

Can we poach Nathan Hughes now? He, Morgan and Billy V would be a lovely set of 8s to have for the World Cup. I think BTSport alluded to him being available now although I thought he was a year away.
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Ford isn't even playing the same sport as Dan carter, he'll never be anywhere near him.

He's a good player but he will not be the England 10 by the end of the 6nations. Barring a massive loss of form the battle is between him and burns for the bench, and if Burns hits his boots he could well force Ford back into the weekly grind come the AI's and 6nations.
 
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Maybe Rats, I just think Marler should have noticed what was going on with the discipline and instead of getting wound up by Aulika and his infringements, he should of calmed the team down, told the team to play for territory and not kick the ball away which was Soul Destroying to watch because London Irish were no threat ball in hand.

As per your comment on Farrell, I partly agree. I want to give time for Farrell because like it or not he will be there, but his natural instincts at 10 are poor and is flat out not a very good passer, especially off his left, compared to Cips/Ford/Burns and Ford is nearly on the same level as Farrell now defensively, it's just the goalkicking.. and Dad to remove out the way. I'm not saying I don't rate Farrell, I do, I just think Ford longer term is the better prospect and might well be right now.

The Backline we may well see for NZ is:

9. Care
10. Farrell/Ford
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade (None of the right wing's are giving a good defensive showing so I think he will pick the guy with the most upside on attack)
15. Brown

What would be my ideal balanced backline in the next 15-18 months:
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Yarde
12. Devoto
13. Tuilagi
14. Watson
15. Brown

So not so different. Ford with more game time is going to continue to improve extensively, it's the inclusion of a passing talent at 12 in Devoto which gives the backline more options. The World Cup sadly is too soon for him although he was included in the wider training squad last month. Watson to jump Wade, purely on the fact that Lancaster likes players to have the all round skill set and to be able to have many skills, Watson has far more defensive capabilities than Wade but slightly less in attack although the gap may close in the next year or so. At least, that's my cents on what would make the most sense :(. If we want to have an all round backline and be able to pass effectively that is :/. Could be just me though.
 
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If Lancaster wants a playmaking 12, and if Twelvetrees and Eastmond can't get their best going, and if Devoto and Slade don't develop quick enough, and if Burns/Ford/Cips are going great guns, what odds on Lancaster changing his mind on Farrell as a 10 only? I wouldn't pick Farrell as a playmaking 12, but then I'd be picking him at 10 under duress only. And Lancaster doesn't.

I don't want to slag off Farrell overly. He has a lot of admirable traits and I am aware that my opinion of him is coloured by distaste at the early and undeserved hype. But I do not think he does the core duties of a fly-half in terms of decision making, distributing and kicking from hand to a high enough level that he deserves to be unchallenged England 10. And there are people who tell me he is. I guess he might be at the moment, but we should be praying everyday for someone to displace and challenge him.

Mindyou, ditto a lot of the positions in the team.
 
Right just got home and watched the game, what the **** was that ? Really the last ****ing play on a game you where winning 20-9 at half time then to get 20-28 down, just too win at 32-28. Positives for England though, in the pack Mullan,Launchbury, Gaskell, Haskell (immense), George, Kruis, Fraser, Vunipola all played well. I thought that Haskell was just brilliant today got turnovers, hit players, played a great 7 role and he had great leadership. He really is the biggest threat too Robshaw at 7, Kvesic and Fraser are all well and good but Haskell has the leadership qualities and experience, will be interesting what happens but I think Robshaw will stay at 7. I believe that Kruis could be a big player for England this year, Launchbury is known for his work rate but the stats between the two
Kruis made 15 tackles Launchbury 12, both missed 1, Launchbury won a turnover
7v7 Haskell made 9 tackles and got a turnover, Fraser made 19 tackles and got a turnover
One thing i have noticed this year is our forwards seem to have got alot fitter and the backs have bulked up slightly. Vunipola this year looks alot better played the whole 80 minutes making 73 meters and made 6 tackles, Morgan looked fitter, Wood looked fitter and I can see the English guys look much better. Brad Barritt looked to have got bigger over the summer and looked more destructive in defence, one thing about him was that he wasn't a big hitter but i thought he was incredible today. Wade will play for England in the autumn, no doubt about it. He was great in attack didn't notice a problem in defence, though i think that he should have been tested with more high kicks and big guys like alot of teams will do. Ashton had a ****ing shocker, in defence he was dreadful, in attack he wasn't too bad in his link up and took his try well. Daly looked okay and should be looked at.
With 10's I think Farrell is far infront and rightly so. Ford looked okay until big games and we dont know how he will do when on the back foot, he should be looked at but I'm not sure.






DISCLAIMER THESE STATS MIGHT TURNOUT TOO BE ******** BUT THEY ARE ON AVIVA'S WEBSITE
 
I only drifted in and out of the Wasps game but wade's defensive positioning looked crap.
They showed, on BT, him running round like a headless chicken and then going and standing by a ruck in midfield allowing whichever of Ashton/Strettle it was to have the easiest of easy run ins.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
I only drifted in and out of the Wasps game but wade's defensive positioning looked crap.
They showed, on BT, him running round like a headless chicken and then going and standing by a ruck in midfield allowing whichever of Ashton/Strettle it was to have the easiest of easy run ins.
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Correct!
 
For what it's worth today what I said on Farrell, Saracens stepped up with him and Spencer getting on the pitch. Spencer really should play more he's a very handy scrum half.

Also ditto to Robson for Gloucester yesterday, his distribution and speed of distribution were very good.
 
Wendigo7 said:
For what it's worth today what I said on Farrell, Saracens stepped up with him and Spencer getting on the pitch. Spencer really should play more he's a very handy scrum half.

Also ditto to Robson for Gloucester yesterday, his distribution and speed of distribution were very good.
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Spencer's passing was dreadful, he was throwing them at people's feet
 
England produce very similar players-
Care, Youngs, Simpson, Spencer, Robson
then you have the Dickson's and Wigglesworth were they are big kicking scrum halfs, i think England have it wrong by selecting one or the other when they should select 2 from the same catergory to keep up the tempo and not change the whole system when they come on. I feel Spencer is the best common ground as he has a good kicking game as well as a running game.
 
Ahh good of the local blue team to step up at the last minute and give us a game after travelling all the way up there!

Nice territorial kick from Kyle - good to see.

Lots of knock-ons from both sides.

Ford's goal kicking was looking good - nailed one from the halfway line and it went over the dead ball line.

The last try was great - Kyle at 1stR... stab pass behind a screen runner* to Ford, who waltzes through a gap and puts Roko away.


*I don't know whether anyone else uses those terms, but that's what I call them!
 
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