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Australia vs England - 3 Tests - June 2016

TobyBeastTeague said:
My money's on Slade. He showed with the 6 Nations that he likes a play making 12. And seeing as he's taken 5 centres I can't see him using 1 of his 2 fly halves at centre (Ford 10, Faz 12).
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He's openly said he wants a power runner at 12 hence Manu converting to 12. Teo I think will be in as a like for like swap (bit of a downgrade from Manu) though I'd be happy with Slade at 12.
 
MrTea_32 said:
He's openly said he wants a power runner at 12 hence Manu converting to 12. Teo I think will be in as a like for like swap (bit of a downgrade from Manu) though I'd be happy with Slade at 12.
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I always assumed that he'd use a power runner off the bench against tired legs, like he did with Manu in the 6 Nations. But maybe not then.
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
I always assumed that he'd use a power runner off the bench against tired legs, like he did with Manu in the 6 Nations. But maybe not then.
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I think he was more hoping to slowly reintroduce Manu than use him as an impact sub. They don't really seem to be Jones style.

What about Farrell-Te'o-Slade? Zero chance of it happening, especially as the sum experience of the centres would be nil, but that's a nice balance of power and playmaking.
 
Orange said:
I think he was more hoping to slowly reintroduce Manu than use him as an impact sub. They don't really seem to be Jones style.

What about Farrell-Te'o-Slade? Zero chance of it happening, especially as the sum experience of the centres would be nil, but that's a nice balance of power and playmaking.
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Having a playmaker at 13 has always seemed weird to me. Chiefs make it work with Slade because the way they play, he will often act as a second 10 in a kind of 2nd back line behind the one that Steenson is the 10 of. I've described it awfully, but put simply I don't think a playmaker 13 would work in international rugby. It worked for Conrad because he was a playmaker that could also act as a more classic 13 when he needed to, whereas Slade is just a 10 playing at 13.
Had he not been injured I would've loved to see a Slade 12, Tuilagi 13 combo, but Jones would never do it, as well as Manu being injured so it couldn't happen anyway.
I remember when Jones was first appointed head coach he said that he wanted a play maker at 12, and that he thought Slade could've filled that role in the 6 Nations had he not been injured. Now that he's back to full fitness, I expect he will be put there with JJ outside him and Faz inside. I don't particularly like it as there is 0 power in there, but it's what I'm expecting.
 
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TobyBeastTeague said:
Having a playmaker at 13 has always seemed weird to me. Chiefs make it work with Slade because the way they play, he will often act as a second 10 in a kind of 2nd back line behind the one that Steenson is the 10 of. I've described it awfully, but put simply I don't think a playmaker 13 would work in international rugby. It worked for Conrad because he was a playmaker that could also act as a more classic 13 when he needed to, whereas Slade is just a 10 playing at 13.
I remember when Jones was first appointed head coach he said that he wanted a play maker at 12, and that he thought Slade could've filled that role in the 6 Nations had he not been injured. Now that he's back to full fitness, I expect he will be put there with JJ outside him and Faz inside. I don't particularly like it as there is 0 power in there, but it's what I'm expecting.
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That's a little unfair- Slade's got a good running and kicking game, and he's not a small player either. If a heavy inside centre can draw off the defence a playmaker at 13 can be a great option to feed the wingers and fullback into the attack or kick behind to turn a defence.
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
Having a playmaker at 13 has always seemed weird to me. Chiefs make it work with Slade because the way they play, he will often act as a second 10 in a kind of 2nd back line behind the one that Steenson is the 10 of. I've described it awfully, but put simply I don't think a playmaker 13 would work in international rugby. It worked for Conrad because he was a playmaker that could also act as a more classic 13 when he needed to, whereas Slade is just a 10 playing at 13.
Had he not been injured I would've loved to see a Slade 12, Tuilagi 13 combo, but Jones would never do it, as well as Manu being injured so it couldn't happen anyway.
I remember when Jones was first appointed head coach he said that he wanted a play maker at 12, and that he thought Slade could've filled that role in the 6 Nations had he not been injured. Now that he's back to full fitness, I expect he will be put there with JJ outside him and Faz inside. I don't particularly like it as there is 0 power in there, but it's what I'm expecting.
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this is the same Eddie Jones who said he saw Manu as a 12 not a 13 and said he would be a world class 12?

I mean I love Manu but he doesn't scream play maker.

I have seen lots of people say he prefers a playmaker 12, but haven't seen him say it.

TBH i live in a dream where the England 2019 backline is
9) Robson
10) Slade
11) May/Yarde (I actually rate May and think with right direction he would be excellent for Eddie).
12) Manu
13) Daly
14) Nowell
15) Watson

21) Youngs
22) Ford
23) Mallinder (covering 12,13,15 and Watson covering wing)

(But that will prob never happen)
TBH when was the last time Slade played 12?
 
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I don't know that Jones has a general preference either way when it comes to playmaker/bosher at 12.
 
Tigs Man said:
this is the same Eddie Jones who said he saw Manu as a 12 not a 13 and said he would be a world class 12?

I mean I love Manu but he doesn't scream play maker.

I have seen lots of people say he prefers a playmaker 12, but haven't seen him say it.

TBH i live in a dream where the England 2019 backline is
9) Robson
10) Slade
11) May/Yarde (I actually rate May and think with right direction he would be excellent for Eddie).
12) Manu
13) Daly
14) Nowell
15) Watson

21) Youngs
22) Ford
23) Mallinder (covering 12,13,15 and Watson covering wing)

(But that will prob never happen)
TBH when was the last time Slade played 12?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRtwTqgzT9c

About 2:35 Jones is talking about his centre pairing, he says he wants someone who can find his way through the line and then pass it outwards, and says he thought Slade could've filled that role in the 12 shirt. And Slade hasn't started at 12 in a while but he's played there quite a few times this season when Campagnaro's come off the bench to 13 and Slade's gone into 12, so he's definitely had quite a bit of game time there recently.
As for that dream team, I love the look of it, especially the inclusion of Mallinder who I think has real potential. I know this is looking a long way into the future, but I'd love to see him starting at 12 post 2019 (When I think Tuilagi will be phased out). I also think that Watson, despite having more game time than Nowell at 15 recently, would be better suited to the wing with Nowell at fullback. And I can't see Slade ever being the 1st choice 10 for England, I think Jones sees him as a centre and will continue to do so. For England I can't see him as being anything other than a 12 capable of covering 10 and 13 if needed.
And as for the wings, do you not see Wade anywhere in the set up?
 
Wade has got to prove it for me.

ATM i just don't trust him defensively, a good Saxons tour would go along way. But i still think he isn't up to it.

(also TBH i prefer Yarde more as a overall player and potential).
 
Tigs Man said:
Wade has got to prove it for me.

ATM i just don't trust him defensively, a good Saxons tour would go along way. But i still think he isn't up to it.

(also TBH i prefer Yarde more as a overall player and potential).
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I can't disagree with any of that tbh. I hope he can improve his defence because I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that he's the best attacking winger in Europe. I also think that a team with Yarde and Nowell on the wings really doesn't offer much pace (Which is part of why I think Nowell should move to Fullback). For me, an ideal back 3 for 2019 is 11. Watson 14. Wade (If he can improve defence) 15. Nowell. If he can't then 11. Yarde 14. Watson 15. Nowell. I see what you mean about May, but he strikes me as a one-trick pony, that trick being his unbelievable pace. He doesn't have a step, his kicking is average at best, to be fair he is pretty good under the high ball, but he's also weak defensively. For me he's about 8th choice winger ATM (Nowell, Watson, Yarde, Wade, Ashton, Roko, Short).
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
I can't disagree with any of that tbh. I hope he can improve his defence because I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that he's the best attacking winger in Europe. I also think that a team with Yarde and Nowell on the wings really doesn't offer much pace (Which is part of why I think Nowell should move to Fullback). For me, an ideal back 3 for 2019 is 11. Watson 14. Wade (If he can improve defence) 15. Nowell. If he can't then 11. Yarde 14. Watson 15. Nowell. I see what you mean about May, but he strikes me as a one-trick pony, that trick being his unbelievable pace. He doesn't have a step, his kicking is average at best, to be fair he is pretty good under the high ball, but he's also weak defensively. For me he's about 8th choice winger ATM (Nowell, Watson, Yarde, Wade, Ashton, Roko, Short).
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Short? Could have sworn he was Welsh.

May might only have one trick, but what a trick it is. As soon as he's through the defence it's a near certain try- ref. New Zealand 2014 (Autumn Internationals) and nearly every game he played at U20 (at 13 too, some are absolutely stunning). Add to that it's nigh on impossible to catch him out in defence because of his pace when he's on form and he looks like a good option. With a bit of polishing on his rougher aspects I think he could be just as good as Watson is now.

Not sure why you think Yarde lacks pace? He's big, but I've never seen him exposed by it. Positionally maybe, but not for speed. 11. May 14. Watson 15. Nowell is my long term ideal I think.
 
Tigs Man said:
I don't get why people say Yarde lacks pace, it might be Wade quick but he is still quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz-00aq8tNA

Short isn't up their with May, May is a proven International Winger Short for me will be nothing but an excellent Club winger.
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I don't disagree, Yarde is great and is fully deserving of playing for England, however I do think if Wade can improve his defence he will be better. That's unlikely though, so I'm happy with Yarde starting as soon as Brown is phased out.
I think it's a stretch to say May's a proven international winger. Granted he got that spectacular try against the All Blacks, but can that really be attributed to anything other than pace and quite a bit of luck? I am probably in a boat on my own here, but I rate Short far above May and think he should've been in the Saxons squad ahead of Lewington. The only area in which May is better than Short is for straight line speed and bmaybe under the high ball. And even there, there isn't much in it. Short is a far more powerful runner and is much better defensively. Sure, in a 100m race May will win, but as a rounded rugby player, Short is head and shoulders above him.
On a separate note, does anyone know why Jones plays his wings on the opposite side of the pitch to their numbers. He always plays 14 on the left and 11 on the right. Is it to throw the other teams defence or something? It's just a little thing but I'm always curious about it.
 
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Can someone point out the multiple errors in defence that wade made this season... His defence has been excellent including multiple good reads where he killed off overlaps.
 
I think the Short thing is because he is a Cheifs player.

He is never going to be a international, player saxons is the best he can hope for.

For me I would have ahead of short:
1) Watson
2) Nowell
3) Roko
4) Yarde
5) Ashton (ewww, and would never pick him)
6) May
7) Wade
8) Lewington
9) Addison
10) Short

Raggs said:
Can someone point out the multiple errors in defence that wade made this season... His defence has been excellent including multiple good reads where he killed off overlaps.
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He makes fek all tackles.

remember reading on a wasps site that Wade in 5 games
Made 19 tackles and missed 6
Nowell
Made 35 tackles and missed 9
Ashton
Made 22 tackles and missed 3

I'm sorry but you can't really hide a winger in international rugby ATM. Ashton gets a rep of crappy tackler (Which he is a bit) but he made more tackels than wade and missed less.
 
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Raggs said:
Can someone point out the multiple errors in defence that wade made this season... His defence has been excellent including multiple good reads where he killed off overlaps.
Click to expand...

Tactically he's very good defensively, but when it comes to actually making tackles he's unreliable

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Tigs Man said:
I think the Short thing is because he is a Cheifs player.

He is never going to be a international, player saxons is the best he can hope for.

For me I would have ahead of short:
1) Watson
2) Nowell
3) Roko
4) Yarde
5) Ashton (ewww, and would never pick him)
6) May
7) Wade
8) Lewington
9) Addison
10) Short



He makes fek all tackles.

remember reading on a wasps site that Wade in 5 games
Made 19 tackles and missed 6
Nowell
Made 35 tackles and missed 9
Ashton
Made 22 tackles and missed 3

I'm sorry but you can't really hide a winger in international rugby ATM. Ashton gets a rep of crappy tackler (Which he is a bit) but he made more tackels than wade and missed less.
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I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye in Short. I think he's great but maybe it is just because he's a Chief. I stil don't think May's international quality, even without Short there are still many in front of him.
 
May and Wade could play in the 6N, but IMO, not against the SH.
 

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