Australia vs England - 3 Tests - June 2016

[Lé Ddanno]

Is anyone else a little concerned by JJ's relative anonymity since last year? He's still solid in defence but I can't recall seeing much, if any, of the attacking wonderboy so prevalent in 2015's 6N since the WC started.

It might be that teams are just shutting him down effectively (and creating space for Watson to score in...or Brown to seek contact) but after being so wowed I'm now a little underwhelmed. Daly's time, perhaps?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nah, JJ's been playing fine, I don't see that much would change by bringing in Daly.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We don't need Hughes.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

My expectations are probably unrealistic. It was one hell of a debut, after all.

 

[Which Tyler]

Farrell has had his best season ever, Ford has had his worst.

Correct - and yet Ford is still better than Farrell at being a Fly Half.
Yes, Ford as his absolute nadir is better than Farrell at his very peak.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Correct - and yet Ford is still better than Farrell at being a Fly Half.
Yes, Ford as his absolute nadir is better than Farrell at his very peak.

That last bit is absolute Crap though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Correct - and yet Ford is still better than Farrell at being a Fly Half.

When he wants to, which has been maybe twice this season.

I am 100% not behind the idea that Ford playing like **** is better than Farrell playing VERY well.
People are writing him off because he's the flyhalf for the most dominant rugby side in Europe.
Ford looks like **** playing behind a **** pack - that's not the hall marks of a good 10. Look how good Hodgson and Cipriani looked playing behind a crap Sale pack.
Andy Goode tore it up for Newcastle behind a beaten pack.

Ford is nowhere near as good as people are making out he is. He could be, down the line, but right now?
You pick your best side, and he's not the best 10 in England. Nor is he the 2nd best 10.


The line about him being as naturally gifted as Dan Carter is laughable. Do we have BBC 6 Nations Coverage writers in here?
"George Ford is not a once in a life time player, he is a ONCE IN HUMAN HISTORY player."

 

[TobesHodges]

When he wants to, which has been maybe twice this season.

I am 100% not behind the idea that Ford playing like **** is better than Farrell playing VERY well.
People are writing him off because he's the flyhalf for the most dominant rugby side in Europe.
Ford looks like **** playing behind a **** pack - that's not the hall marks of a good 10. Look how good Hodgson and Cipriani looked playing behind a crap Sale pack.
Andy Goode tore it up for Newcastle behind a beaten pack.

Ford is nowhere near as good as people are making out he is. He could be, down the line, but right now?
You pick your best side, and he's not the best 10 in England. Nor is he the 2nd best 10.


The line about him being as naturally gifted as Dan Carter is laughable. Do we have BBC 6 Nations Coverage writers in here?
"George Ford is not a once in a life time player, he is a ONCE IN HUMAN HISTORY player."

Myself and GN10 said this all last season and got laughed off the site.. How things change..

The Wallabies will be super strong, McMahon at 6 over Fardy will be very good, Folau may play 13, especially against Jospeh may cause problems, the tight five battle intriges me the most, Skelton and Mumm vs Itoje and Launchbury will be very good..

 

[ratsapprentice]

How things change..

Don't think they have, really... Olyy's never really like Ford, myself and others always have.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't think they have, really... Olyy's never really like Ford, myself and others always have.

Meh, I like to think I'm just being realistic. When Ford's good he's very good, but that's rare at the moment. I think he'll get back to his best next season, and this season's a blip due to playing in a side that's getting battered (for the first time) and also off field issues with his Dad taking a lot of flak for Bath's performances, but that doesn't mean that if we're playing tomorrow I'd pick him because I know, deep down, he's good. If he's not the best option ATM then don't pick him.
I've never been much of a fan of Farrell, and my post history will attest to that, but he's by far the best option at 10 (unless they bring Cipriani into the EPS, in which case you have Danny at 10 and Farrell at 12).



I can understand why you want to back your youth, especially when they have the potential that Ford has, but it's not like we've got, say, Hodgson as our starting 10 and we know that we HAVE to blood someone regardless of what's going to happen because we've no alternative.
Farrell is 24 and is going to be in the EPS for probably the next 8 years or more. We can afford to give Ford some time away while his form is ****.

 

[Peat]

My opinion has changed actually. First 6N I thought he was an amazing attacking player on a crest but skeptical of how well he coped with the pressure coming in. I was praying for Slade.

This 6N, he must have been at a massive low ebb, he makes some errors... and he keeps his head and improves through the tournament and is always adding something positive. That was about as bad as he's ever going to be for England and he was still worth his place, so I started to believe. I'm compared those games to Farrell's best for England and... yeah, I'll take Ford in his 2016 6N form for England fly-half before anything Farrell has yet to consistently produce in the shirt. I don't care what Farrell's done for Saracens, I don't really care what anyone does for their clubs, judge on what they can do in an England shirt and then go to club form if you've got a close tie.

And Olyy darling, do try to read what I *actually* type. "Possibly the most naturally talented fly-half since Carter" is a very different thing to "being as naturally gifted as Carter".

 

[spartan32]

Ford certainly has moments of brilliance in him and in my opinion is still better with ball in hand then Faz but to play that poorly in a game with no pressure to speak of is worrying. Also he is not great in defence, certainly not as strong as Faz.

I think if we had a very strong contender for 12 Ford may be in real trouble but as this isn't the case I can see EJ playing Faz 12, Ford 10. I would imagine this tour will be the last chance saloon for him, what with Cips banging on the door.

Either way I applaud EJ for sticking up for his lad in the press conference after the game. It's that kind of faith in players that builds their confidence and improves them as players.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You're saying Farrell shouldn't be given a shot to prove himself as England 10, though, so you have to look at club form because he's playing at 12 for England.
His club form has been excellent, and his attacking is much improved - he deserves a shot at the 10 shirt.

Also I phrased that wrong, I guess, but you're still saying he's the most naturally gifted flyhalf of the last....decade? Which is a bit rich for my tastes.


This is all arguing opinions, though, I guess.
Eddie has backed his man in the press but for all we know we're looking at Faz at 10 and Ford at 22 for the first Aussie test.

 

[Peat]

Feel free to tell me who's more naturally gifted. I can't think of any; the best runners tend to be indifferent tactical kickers. Maybe Cooper? There's not going tobe many.

Is Farrell's attacking game for Sarries much improved from 2014?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cipriani is comfortably more talented than Ford, and a better athlete too.

 

[Peat]

Cipriani is comfortably more talented than Ford, and a better athlete too.

Shoulda seen that coming I think Ford edges him for tactical kicking and passing. Still, if I give you him for the sake of argument, any others?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Freddie Burns was the most in form 10 before his injury.

Excellent goal kicking, was performing well despite Leicester mixed forwards display, Having Youngs as his scrum half and not really having a nailed down 12,13, defence improved a lot as did his tactical kicking.

Hopefully he will be able to carry his form over to next season.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Shoulda seen that coming I think Ford edges him for tactical kicking and passing. Still, if I give you him for the sake of argument, any others?

If you're looking at base skills and not how well they perform under pressure and their flakiness etc. (which we shouldn't as Ford's flaky AF) there's bound to be a few - especially from down under.
How about Trinh-Duc? He's class.

I dunno, I really like Ford when he's playing well but he's not a game change, he's just a good 10.
As Tigs said, Burns is class 'n' all.
If everyone in the premiership was on their top top top form, couldn't put a foot wrong, then where would Ford come?
Certainly behind Hodgson and Cipriani - Goode? Burns?

 

[Peat]

All I can say is I'm beginning to wonder if we've been watching the same player...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So do I, because you, and some Bath fans, seem to be the only one thinking Ford's good enough at the moment.