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I believe the main goal is to defund the police.

That's not to say disband the police, but divert/redistribute their insane budgets into causes that address the root causes of many of the issues that police deal with with a heavy hand.
Things like community outreach programs, mental health programs etc.
For example the LAPD has a budget of $1.8bn - the LA Mayor has now pledged to reduce this by $150m with the money being invested into minority communities. Still a crazy high budget but also that's $150m more for communities that had nothing.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/


As well as setting up independent boards to hold the police accountable for their abuses of power - having police police themselves doesn't really work, and holding police accountable for the recent murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor (amongst many others).
 
I believe the main goal is to defund the police.

That's not to say disband the police, but diver their insane budgets into causes that address the root causes of many of the issues that police deal with with a heavy hand.
Things like community outreach programs, mental health programs etc.
For example the LAPD has a budget of $1.8bn - the LA Mayor has now pledged to reduce this by $150m with the money being invested into minority communities.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/


As well as setting up independent boards to hold the police accountable for their abuses of power - having police police themselves doesn't really work, and holding police accountable for the recent murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor (amongst many others).

That's a good idea acc, I'd not thought about that
 
TBH I think the protests have now achived their sort term goal the issue was the lack of arrest and charging of the officers involved, which now murder in the second for the prime shitbag (it sounds like trying to prove murder at first almost impossible due to premeditation requirements, second is murder with intent to kill which sounds likely considering you have a video evidence of how long it took to kill him it can't accidental). Shitbags 2 through 4 are getting aiding and abetting murder in the second charges.

As to what can be done the USA needs a complete rethink of their entire approach to policing which is too much of a military oragnisation, policing requires a completely diffrent approach. That isn't going to change soon and sounds like it requires it become federalised to have nationwide changes (good luck with that). But I'd like to see some headway in changing how they approach this sort of thing.
 
TBH I think the protests have now achived their sort term goal the issue was the lack of arrest and charging of the officers involved, which now murder in the second for the prime shitbag (it sounds like trying to prove murder at first almost impossible due to premeditation requirements, second is murder with intent to kill which sounds likely considering you have a video evidence of how long it took to kill him it can't accidental). Shitbags 2 through 4 are getting aiding and abetting murder in the second charges.

As to what can be done the USA needs a complete rethink of their entire approach to policing which is too much of a military oragnisation, policing requires a completely diffrent approach. That isn't going to change soon and sounds like it requires it become federalised to have nationwide changes (good luck with that). But I'd like to see some headway in changing how they approach this sort of thing.

Problem is that America has a general fight fire with fire culture. It's worth considering that many cops will have literally had to stare down the barrel during their careers so it's no wonder if they develop a general mindset of not p*ssing about and worrying about the finer details later.

That's a societal thing that will take ages to change if it's soluble at all. But a strong start will be the politicians, the Police themselves and the courts consistently clamping down hard on the kind of obviously gratuitous Police brutality we've seen in Minneapolis. That can be done.
 
I have a question that I've been thinking about for a couple days... Let me be clear that it's just a question and slightly playing devil's advocate with myself but something I've thought about nevertheless.

What is the goal of the protests?

I think there are 2 aspects to the protests:
1 - Black people are targeted more by the police and generally face injustice in society
2 - When that racism is exposed, nothing happens.

The former needs society to change and highlighting the issue might go some way towards that but ultimately you can't make laws to change it. The second point though can definitely be changed. I read a figure that out of 100 cases of police use of violence in situations where that violence was challenged, in only 1 case would the police officer face any sort of disciplinary action and even fewer cases firing and even fewer still, prosecution. That is a staggeringly low number. This figure may be off but there are enough cases where it was clear cut and they still walked free. One example before was an ex veteran who had an alarm due to a medical condition set it off by accident. Police arrived and demanded he open the door. He refused and said he had no issue and even called the number for his emergency device to say it was a false alarm. The police then started threatening him, called him a n****r and eventually forced their way into his house. Once in his house they shot and killed him. End result? Not even disciplinary action and it was deemed they did nothing wrong.

When you can accidentally set of your health alarm and the end result is being shot and killed by the police after being sworn at in racially abusive terms, all recorded and nothing happened, there is a VERY big problem and that problem is in the system, not just society. It should not be possible to do that and walk free.
 
Additional, Ex Defence Sec Mattis criticised Trumps actions and said he was trying to divide the nation. Trump did his usual childish response and now ex chief of staff Kelly is contradicting Trump and siding with Mattis. Seems more and more people who've actually had to deal with Trump are publicly turning on him. Better late than never I guess.
 
Honestly short of obvious and provable treason I don't see anything tarnishing Trump in the eyes of his supporters. He's survived collusion with Russia, abusing his office, sexism, racism. Even with covid 19 he still isn't losing support massively. Most of the people protesting wouldn't vote for Trump anyway and I imagine the majority of his supporters would like to see the protesters *dominated*. The only way he's going is if Biden can somehow persuade the democratic voters who didn't vote for Hilary to turn up and win swing voters. If not then trump will easily be re-elected. For me his ex-generals criticising him isn't going to do too much.
 
It might sew at least a seed of doubt in the military vote.
They're still overwhelmingly pro-Trump but Mattis is incredibly well respected in the US Military world and him being publicly against trump (and trump sniping at him) could turn a few people against him.
 
evangelical-support-for-donald-trump-5.jpg
 

I found the historical aspect interesting as it makes absolutely no reference to Britain's role in developing the idea of races and supremacy. We have an incredible ability in this country to ignore our past and to pretend that we have absolutely no responsibility for current issues or that many are of them are still prevalent in our society, just not as openly.

This is a good read: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-george-floyd-britain-america-uk-black-people
 
We could honestly fill another 536(!) pages with the police brutality that has been committed over the last few days.
 
People's thoughts on the young household cavalry soldiers being shouted at by some girls when they tried to clean up a spray painted war memorial?

It seems to be very split online between steadfast support for them and criticism

https://twitter.com/i/status/1268556612224114689
It really shouldn't be a controversial statement War Memorials shouldn't be vandalised and yeah it should be cleaned up.

Honestly applaud the guys not telling the girl to f off and do one.
 
It really shouldn't be a controversial statement War Memorials shouldn't be vandalised and yeah it should be cleaned up.

Honestly applaud the guys not telling the girl to f off and do one.
Agree wholeheartedly!
Apparently they had to leave shortly afterwards because there were threats of violence towards them
 
I found the historical aspect interesting as it makes absolutely no reference to Britain's role in developing the idea of races and supremacy. We have an incredible ability in this country to ignore our past and to pretend that we have absolutely no responsibility for current issues or that many are of them are still prevalent in our society, just not as openly.

This is a good read: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-george-floyd-britain-america-uk-black-people

Yes and it's a good point made by the guardian article that here in UK we should not fail to recognise Britain's historical role in making race an issue in the US. But to be fair, the whole US was built on the foundation of original sin and from there has perpetuated ever since, which was the point of Clive Myrie's short video and mixed with a a horribly structured and disparate police system, this is what it has led to in today's protests.

I am surprised the article does not mention the McPherson report and Stephen Lawrence. The role of institutional racism has played within the metropolitan police force.

As aside, as an ethnic minority growing up in Britain I have had 3 incidents of racism. The issue that Rage brought up about society being racist and the system being institutionally racist which has brought about what happened in the USA. But this is also in any multicultural society. I know profitius got banned because of his overtly racist posts, but just wanted to pick up on the issue of racism. For me it is an issue, you will never eradicate from society because it stems largely from ignorance and within our own differences as human beings. The issue of identity being paramount to this, whichever country or culture you live in. However, that does not mean we should always not strive towards eradicating through greater awareness.

The 3 examples I can think of racism in my life, I wanted to share:

1. Getting off the train once time after work and trying to go through the ticket barriers. Crowded with commuters just wanting to get home, but one of two of the barriers letting people out weren't working, which created a bottle neck. I waited patiently in line, then a black guy who was getting really irritated and frustrated pushes in front of me. I say to him there's a line and you pushed in front of me. He shouts back and pushes and say " f off you yellow ...... go back to Japan...." He then tries to go through the barrier, but it stops him and i just laugh and he turns round and pushes me again and shouts racist abuse at me. He eventually gets through and storms off, - no apology and not one other commuter who witnessed it or station staff approached me to say that was totally out of order what he did and said to you.

Whether they were in shock as I was or simply did not care; I could not tell you. I was shocked myself that a black guy, who I am sure has suffered overt racism in his life would just be racist against another race. But that was the point, different races can be just as racist against each other it is not just a simple case of whites being racist against black people and this has perpetuated itself in society and in turn the system, whether it be police or government.

2. At school I had just entered my lower 6th form and the head of 6th form had given a talk in front of all the sixth form. He had produced a sixth form manual for us all to read, which was handed out by our form tutors. But not enough copies were produced and so I approached him after the talk and asked him if he had a copy. He said yes, he had some in his room. I followed him to his room and he searched around and it turned out he did not have any copies left. I said to him don't worry I can come back another time when you do have copies and get one. He turned round to me and scolded me and said "if you keep having that kind of attitude you will turn out like pupil X.." Pupil X was another chinese boy, who was a year older than me who failed his lower sixth exams and had to repeat the year. Given this head of sixth form did not know me and used this specific other pupil to shame me for just saying i could come back another time to get a copy, shocked me. But at the time i did not think anything of it, but had I been more aware of this, and looking back should have reported him.

3. The final incident that sticks in my mind did involve the police. I was 18 at the time and had been drinking at a pub with a couple of friends in the local town centre. Other friends, who were with us, had left to go to house party. One of them, who wasn't drinking said she could pick us up later so we 3 could join them. The 3 of us got pretty hammered and our friend came to pick us up. The 3 of us climbed in the back of her car and she started driving us to the party. On the way though a big van full of police, who must have been watching us get in the car, pulled us over.

My friend who was driving got breathalysed, but for some reason she could not take it seriously and started laughing hysterically. So
The 3 of us in the back stayed where we were at the time. The problem was none of us had been wearing our seat belts at the time. But the one in the middle, was pretty smart and was probably more with his senses at the time, and stuffed the lap belt down the back without the officers noticing. Of course me and my friend who were sitting either side of him could not do the same with our seatbelts. I stayed pretty quiet throughout, but I do remember one of the officers telling us to get out of the car. I was probably still pretty much half cut and didn't react and the office turns round to my friend who was sat in the back and points to me and says "doesn't he understand English?" Like I couldn't because he saw the colour of my skin.

Anyway, the police turned the car inside out to look for drugs, because they thought my driver friend was high. When they couldn't find anything they gave me and my other friend who weren't wearing seatbelts £20 fines. Well, they had to get us on something.
 
Agree wholeheartedly!
Apparently they had to leave shortly afterwards because there were threats of violence towards them

For cleaning graffiti off a memorial?

FFS are Space X taking bookings yet?

Also @The_Blindside your points and stories raise interesting issues. Whilst less serious at the moment, it's widely regarded that racism is a white problem. Whilst it is certainly true in the west that white people have more power to act on their racism, it is far from exclusively white. I think as China rises cases of racism by Chinese nationals will get more notice. Also even within minorities there is a hell of a lot of racism. This goes back to the point about differentiating society and systemic racism and dealing withe them differently. The latter is mostly carried out by white people in the west and harms others, the former though is carried out by people of all races and needs to be treated as such rather than only white people needing to change their attitude towards racism. There was a video of an old asian man walking through a black neighbourhood who was verbally and physically harassed by black people. That is every bit as unacceptable and needs to be dealt with equally for all races, unlike systemic racism.
 
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Yes and it's a good point made by the guardian article that here in UK we should not fail to recognise Britain's historical role in making race an issue in the US. But to be fair, the whole US was built on the foundation of original sin and from there has perpetuated ever since, which was the point of Clive Myrie's short video and mixed with a a horribly structured and disparate police system, this is what it has led to in today's protests.

I am surprised the article does not mention the McPherson report and Stephen Lawrence. The role of institutional racism has played within the metropolitan police force.

As aside, as an ethnic minority growing up in Britain I have had 3 incidents of racism. The issue that Rage brought up about society being racist and the system being institutionally racist which has brought about what happened in the USA. But this is also in any multicultural society. I know profitius got banned because of his overtly racist posts, but just wanted to pick up on the issue of racism. For me it is an issue, you will never eradicate from society because it stems largely from ignorance and within our own differences as human beings. The issue of identity being paramount to this, whichever country or culture you live in. However, that does not mean we should always not strive towards eradicating through greater awareness.

The 3 examples I can think of racism in my life, I wanted to share:

1. Getting off the train once time after work and trying to go through the ticket barriers. Crowded with commuters just wanting to get home, but one of two of the barriers letting people out weren't working, which created a bottle neck. I waited patiently in line, then a black guy who was getting really irritated and frustrated pushes in front of me. I say to him there's a line and you pushed in front of me. He shouts back and pushes and say " f off you yellow ...... go back to Japan...." He then tries to go through the barrier, but it stops him and i just laugh and he turns round and pushes me again and shouts racist abuse at me. He eventually gets through and storms off, - no apology and not one other commuter who witnessed it or station staff approached me to say that was totally out of order what he did and said to you.

Whether they were in shock as I was or simply did not care; I could not tell you. I was shocked myself that a black guy, who I am sure has suffered overt racism in his life would just be racist against another race. But that was the point, different races can be just as racist against each other it is not just a simple case of whites being racist against black people and this has perpetuated itself in society and in turn the system, whether it be police or government.

2. At school I had just entered my lower 6th form and the head of 6th form had given a talk in front of all the sixth form. He had produced a sixth form manual for us all to read, which was handed out by our form tutors. But not enough copies were produced and so I approached him after the talk and asked him if he had a copy. He said yes, he had some in his room. I followed him to his room and he searched around and it turned out he did not have any copies left. I said to him don't worry I can come back another time when you do have copies and get one. He turned round to me and scolded me and said "if you keep having that kind of attitude you will turn out like pupil X.." Pupil X was another chinese boy, who was a year older than me who failed his lower sixth exams and had to repeat the year. Given this head of sixth form did not know me and used this specific other pupil to shame me for just saying i could come back another time to get a copy, shocked me. But at the time i did not think anything of it, but had I been more aware of this, and looking back should have reported him.

3. The final incident that sticks in my mind did involve the police. I was 18 at the time and had been drinking at a pub with a couple of friends in the local town centre. Other friends, who were with us, had left to go to house party. One of them, who wasn't drinking said she could pick us up later so we 3 could join them. The 3 of us got pretty hammered and our friend came to pick us up. The 3 of us climbed in the back of her car and she started driving us to the party. On the way though a big van full of police, who must have been watching us get in the car, pulled us over.

My friend who was driving got breathalysed, but for some reason she could not take it seriously and started laughing hysterically. So
The 3 of us in the back stayed where we were at the time. The problem was none of us had been wearing our seat belts at the time. But the one in the middle, was pretty smart and was probably more with his senses at the time, and stuffed the lap belt down the back without the officers noticing. Of course me and my friend who were sitting either side of him could not do the same with our seatbelts. I stayed pretty quiet throughout, but I do remember one of the officers telling us to get out of the car. I was probably still pretty much half cut and didn't react and the office turns round to my friend who was sat in the back and points to me and says "doesn't he understand English?" Like I couldn't because he saw the colour of my skin.

Anyway, the police turned the car inside out to look for drugs, because they thought my driver friend was high. When they couldn't find anything they gave me and my other friend who weren't wearing seatbelts £20 fines. Well, they had to get us on something.

I definitely agree that racism is just the domain of white people and most of it does stem from a lack of understanding and a belief in stereotypes. However, one issue that is constantly brought up and ignored is systemic, institutional racism integrated into a society's cultural, social and political institutions. As the article I linked earlier highlights, the woman appointed as equalities minister doesn't believe institutional racism exist in this country. Laurence Fox saying that this country isn't racist and is one of the most tolerant. People in this country are able to recognise overt racism, but not the more subtle racism that leads to BAME having far lower prospects in life. Tbh I'm a white, middle-class, British male. Short of being a wealthy, white, British male I'm one of the most privileged people in the world. I have had almost no barriers in my life stopping me from achieving what I want. Yet it is people like me who are in power in America and Britain who make the decisions that affect millions of BAME people and they have absolutely no understanding of the issues, suffering and hardships they have to deal with. They can't solve the problems because they don't know what they are and more often don't know or pretend they don't exist. Yes greater understanding helps, but also people in this country (and the US) need to openly admit that their country is institutionally racist and accept that wide scale reforms are needed, because as long as you have mainly old white men in power, nothing will change.
 
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