A Political Thread

[ncurd]

He'll probably get off because politicians always put party before country, but we can hope

He's guilty but the American system makes it almost impossible to remove a sitting president and for good reason you can't open it up as a political attack. Its why Pelosi waited until now she wanted an absolute clear cut case.

I think its unreasonable to expect the senate and politicians not to vote for their aligned with. Morally they should but its never going to happen in any form of democracy.

Sadly this is where elected officials appointing judges leads you and a system that only lets the people to judge you being elected. The trial should conducted by a jury and judge with no political influence...

 

[Which Tyler]

Sadly this is where elected officials appointing judges leads you and a system that only lets the people to judge you being elected. The trial should conducted by a jury and judge with no political influence...

But you can't have that - it means governments might lose cases in the courts; then you have to go all article page 48 on them

 

[big ginger 8]

Trump officially up for impeachment on two counts:
Obstructing Congress
and Abuse of Power

He'll probably get off because politicians always put party before country, but we can hope

I think you're forgetting self interest there.

During Nixon's impeachment a not insubstantial amount of Republicans went against him. Some were undoubtedly disgusted by his actions, some likely saw it as a way of advancing their careers.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

pretty crap that the democrats didn't bring a bribery charge when that's what he did. Just cause fail to complete a crime doesn't mean you didn't commit a crime.

70s were a different time, Dems and Republicans were much more united. Post WW2 to about 1976 were a very different time in American politics. The only way republicans vote to oust him is if they think that supporting the president will cost them votes. Only ones in coin toss states/districts will consider it.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

https://twitter.com/The_Law_Boy/status/1204450962645176320?s=20

 

[ncurd]

I really don't know how angry I'm going to be at Labour members come Friday morning for lumbering the country with Corbyn. It's been clear since day 1, 4 years ago he couldn't win back much support from the center.

At the moment he's projected to win a whole 2 seats whilst losing....32
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1204523793412247553?s=19

And before anyone says yougov this specific poll was pretty damn accurate last time out.

It's not like people tried to tell them the 2017 result was probably the most amount of support he could get.

 

[McTallshort]

I really don't know how angry I'm going to be at Labour members come Friday morning for lumbering the country with Corbyn. It's been clear since day 1, 4 years ago he couldn't win back much support from the center.

At the moment he's projected to win a whole 2 seats whilst losing....32
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1204523793412247553?s=19

And before anyone says yougov this specific poll was pretty damn accurate last time out.

It's not like people tried to tell them the 2017 result was probably the most amount of support he could get.

Its not just Corbyn. I was just chatting about this at work, in 2015 we had: Cameroon, Milliband and Clegg. We now have the choice of: Boris, Corbyn and Swinson. No matter what your feelings are on first 3 you have to admit they are all head and shoulders above the second 3.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's just how indoctrinated the country is into thinking the people in charge need to be floppy haired toffs - that poll that said Corbyn was significantly more trust worthy, significantly more in touch withe the common people, but significantly less prime ministerial than BoJo says it all.
Labour memberbase (specifically the younger voters) have latched on to Corbyn because he's different and he's principled.

It's like the whole "Temporarily embarrassed millionaires" thing - just keep licking the toffs boots because one day you'll be a millionaire and they won't treat you like scum anymore.

 

[Which Tyler]

Couple of fairly important articles recently that I haven't noticed being covered.

FirstDraftNews

88% of conservative's paid facebook ad.s have been found to be untruthful or misleading compared to 0% for labour and 16.5% for LibDem.
Whilst facebook (officially) has policies in place to counter such things - Zuckerberg doesn't apply them to political parties - presumably because political parties spend a lot of money on facebook and don't like being called liars.


YorkshirePost

Editor of the Yorkshire Post replies to critics on the 4 year old pneumonia story; basically saying "journalists have a legal duty to fact check - which we did; Sheree on facebook doesn't, and didn't; and oh look, it was the first and last post from an account that has since disappeared and is unavailable for scrutiny".



ByLineTimes

Dissects how these fake stories get out and given legitimacy by mainstream media / journalists; covers Jack on the floor, Johnson's phone "theft", the Matt Hancock "assault"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Strong and stable.
He's gonna get bent over by each and every world leader in trade talks - can't even hack an interview with Piers Morgan and he's supposed to negotiate with the entire world for deals better than being in the EU?

Do me a flavour.

 

[ncurd]

Labour memberbase (specifically the younger voters) have latched on to Corbyn because he's different and he's principled.

Unless your Jewish....and I'd hardly call Momentum principaled.

I do get it though even at my age I didn't know what a true lefty looked or acted like. Kinnock was leader at the time of my birth.

Agree entirely by the rent a suits of the past personally I do think Swinson and even Corbyn are better than Milliband (a vaccumus husk of a man if yiuve ever seen one, why they didn't pick his brother is being most reasoning). Probably better than Cameron.

Despite his mistakes I still have a lot of love Clegg who was a man trying to do the right thing the wrong way. I wonder what he would done had he actually been PM


It's all a major step down from Blair/Ashdown/Kennedy though.....the Tories had terrible leaders in that timeframe.

 

[ncurd]

88% of conservative's paid facebook ad.s have been found to be untruthful or misleading compared to 0% for labour and 16.5% for LibDem."

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50726500

Whist this is true about paid for ads, Labour are not absolved for mistruthing they just do it through unpaid mean like stuff shared by activists or statement made by their candidates.

Sorry seen this one do the rounds a little and a few people I know are trying to say this proves "Labout tell no lies whatsoever!" they do just a little bit more clever about how they do it.

 

[McTallshort]

It's all a major step down from Blair/Ashdown/Kennedy though.....the Tories had terrible leaders in that timeframe.

Major was a good leader.

 

[ncurd]

Major was a good leader.

In retrospect yes hes certainly the Jimmy Carter of British politics and a far better ex-PM than Blair in that he's kept his mouth shut for the most part and only started to speak out when its all started to go horribly wrong.

 

[Which Tyler]

Strong and stable.
He's gonna get bent over by each and every world leader in trade talks - can't even hack an interview with Piers Morgan and he's supposed to negotiate with the entire world for deals better than being in the EU?

Do me a flavour.

I was just coming back to post that!

Whist this is true about paid for ads, Labour are not absolved for mistruthing they just do it through unpaid mean like stuff shared by activists or statement made by their candidates.

Sorry seen this one do the rounds a little and a few people I know are trying to say this proves "Labout tell no lies whatsoever!" they do just a little bit more clever about how they do it.

Yeah, I'm making no such assertions, and tried to make it clear in my post that it was paid ad.s only. I also think it's being doing the rounds enough, and followed up in enough places that most people were aware of that difference. I was posting more as I felt it was worthy of dicsussion and I hadn't noticed that happening here.
TBH though, I probably should have linked to ITV / BBC or whoever that discussed that point; rather than going to the place that broke the story.
I do think there's a difference between paid ads and what an individual posts - though it is a mruky area. Facebook agree as they police these things in non-political advertising, but not in user created content.

In retrospect yes hes certainly the Jimmy Carter of British politics and a far better ex-PM than Blair in that he's kept his mouth shut for the most part and only started to speak out when its all started to go horribly wrong.

Personally, I always thought he was good at the time as well, though that may have been because my only comparator was Thatcher as PM and Kinnock / Ashdown as party leaders

 

[ncurd]

Yeah, I'm making no such assertions, and tried to make it clear in my post that it was paid ad.s only. I also think it's being doing the rounds enough, and followed up in enough places that most people were aware of that difference. I was posting more as I felt it was worthy of dicsussion and I hadn't noticed that happening here.
TBH though, I probably should have linked to ITV / BBC or whoever that discussed that point; rather than going to the place that broke the story.
I do think there's a difference between paid ads and what an individual posts - though it is a murky area. Facebook agree as they police these things in non-political advertising, but not in user created content.

Don't worry wasn't particularly having ago at you. I've had friends quote this part this part of the article.

for Labour, it said that it could not find any misleading claims in ads run over the period

Which was originally not a bullet point on its own but contained the next two paragraphs.

for Labour, it said that it could not find any misleading claims in ads run over the period
However, Labour's supporters have been more likely to share unpaid-for electioneering posts than supporters of other parties.

And among the most interacted-with posts of the campaign was Jeremy Corbyn's tweet containing the disputed figure of £500m in relation to the NHS.

It particularly irked me they were trying to pass off being squeeky clean by removing entire parts of the bullet point.....through a post being shared by activists.....they didn't like I called them out on it either.


I do accept there is a difference but it does need to stop I'm tired of bullshit being shared that has created deliberately by party activists to deliberately misconvey the facts. They are for all intense and purposes party propanganda but as not offcial endorsed people think its fair game (and I got told as such by the people called out). Personally its none of it is fine.

 

[Which Tyler]

Turns out that (Sheree) the originator of the fake story that the 4 year old was a fake pic; who claimed that her account was hacked and that she'd never posted it - lied about that (she replied to comments on it); and has a son who is friends with Matt Hancock - who would, of course, have no possible reason to try to get this lie out there.
https://www.facebook.com/jon.maiden/posts/10156954643798269

And now for something completely different:

 

[ncurd]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-stockton-south-brendan-devlin-a9241981.html

Wish more candidates all over the spectrum did this....

 

[Which Tyler]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-stockton-south-brendan-devlin-a9241981.html

Wish more candidates all over the spectrum did this....

Yup

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50714216

Sir John Curtice is the guy the listen to and take note on election night.