A Political Thread

[User1245]

Only 3?

Man your your ******* idiot or actually don't read the news.

There's the times he called immigrants rapists.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/04/06/politics/trump-mexico-rapists/index.html

The time in Charlottesville he referred to white supremacists as very fine people after one of them had deliberately driven into a crown of people and murdered someone.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-defends-2017-fine-people-comments-calls-robert/story?id=62653478

Oh yeah and let's not forget he was a huge proponent of birtherism.

Those are all within the last decade, some of which he's repeated and defended.

And there's more than that.

Here's a comprehensive article
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/588067/

Sorry by trying to claim Trump at best hasn't cosied up to racists you've shown yourself up as a complete and utter idiot.

What's up with the you lefties insulting people? Anyway...

There's the times he called immigrants rapists.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/04/06/politics/trump-mexico-rapists/index.html

So he said:
The US has become a dumping ground for everybody else's problems. Thank you. It's true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

Firstly, nothing in there is racist. Mexican is a nationality, not a race.
He's talking specifically about illegal Mexican immigrants, not law abiding Latinos/Hispanics.
So you're stance that he is racist so far is not demonstrably true so far. Before reading the rest, do you agree or disagree with my conclusion? Remember whether he is a mean person is not on trial here, it's whether this statement was racist. I want to flesh this one out before we move onto the next.

Trump's approval rating amongst Latinos is around 30%, the same as McCain and Romney. MSM journalists are desperating trying to "whitesplain" to them that he is a racist but they are failing because he has every right to criticize the illegal immigration that is coming from Mexico.

Secondly, and unrelated to your racism claim which we are discussing, yes the "They're rapists" quote is bad. He shouldn't have said that and it was wrong. BUT if he added "bringing" like the phrases before would this have blown up as much? It's logically inconsistent to assume that he was talking about all of them as rapists. Is he calling the women and children rapists too? Are all of them bringing drugs too? You can't have it both ways.
There have been several public cases of illegal immigrants raping (and killing) women in the US. That's what I believe he was referring to and that's why his Latino support hasn't dropped because they are looking at the quote in context of what he was saying.

That said I do think it smells of alarmist politicking to me and he didn't have to take it that far because it ended up hurting his message.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

sO mUCh fOr tHE tOlErANt lEfT

 

[ncurd]

Mexican is not a race....

According to the 1965 UN International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,[23]

The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Yeah no point in even engaging. If you want to get try the usual right shite defence of trying to change the generally agreed terms of what constitutes racism.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Load of journos reporting Hancock's aide was punched at a rally yesterday and it turns out it's completely made up (he walked into someones outstretched arm) - they're apologising for the lies now, but the damage is done

Also the IPSO reporting that the Daily Mail completely fabricated stories about Labours tax plans - once again, they'll issue a redaction/apology but it'll be too late/no one will notice. People only care about the headline now, not the small print apology a month later.

 

[ncurd]

Been the Tory plan all campaign, lie then issue retraction/apologies after the story has done the rounds. Sadly its working.

 

[Which Tyler]

Been the Tory plan all campaign, lie then issue retraction/apologies after the story has done the rounds. Sadly its working.

Yep, straight from the Banon playbook

 

[User1245]

Mexican is not a race....


Yeah no point in even engaging. If you want to get try the usual right shite defence of trying to change the generally agreed terms of what constitutes racism.

Got it. I can agree to that.
So racial discrimination is any:

• Distinction
• Exclusion
• Restriction
• Preference

Based any of the following:

• Race
• Colour
• Descent
• National or ethnic origin

That has the purpose or effect of:

• nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

So let's test this out universally on what you have said in the past:

Be careful though after reading the Afrikaan's thread some of countrymen are in danger of going "full Irish" about Rassie

What's wrong with going "full Irish" huh? It wouldn't be acceptable if you said going "full Jew".

Man the SAffers who said this was going to be a walk over are looking mightily silly now. Like everyone tried to warn them they would.

Would it be acceptable if you said "Man the Blacks who said this was going to be a walk over are looking mightily silly now."

Definition of 'silly': having or showing a lack of common sense or judgement; absurd and foolish.

Gatland already has the job......so we'll pick a bunch of Welsh players who don't deserve to be there whilst playing negative tactics and chalk up a draw as a victory even though a victory was on the cards like we did 2 years ago.

Yikes, clearly Welsh players are inferior in your opinion. Sounds like you're scapegoating them too.

Remember nationality is interchangeable with race and ethnicity. So it doesn't make for good reading does it... Plenty of regulars on here who use national origin to make wide ranging generalisations. So obviously there's institutionalized racism within this forum.

Man, that definition of racism is absurd and you know it.
To top it off I'm being called the idiot with no integrity?

You didn't even attempt to discuss the deeper points of my post but instead chose to use a linguistic smoke screen. Have it your way, enjoy your echo chamber.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

**** me, you should apply for the Olympics with the levels of mental gymnastics going on in that post.

 

[ncurd]

And ignored and reported, I'm not being accused of racism with completely out of context posts to build a straw-man argument.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

You know what I agree with Steve-o here. I'm 100% against any definition that makes me look like an asshole.

And ignored and reported, I'm not being accused of racism with completely out of context posts to build a straw-man argument.

it would be culturally insensitive to stop the English from mocking welsh and Irish people.

 

[ncurd]

it would be culturally insensitive to stop the English from mocking welsh and Irish people.

I appreciate there's a level of tongue and cheek here but just for the record.

"Full Irish" is a in-joke in which Irish members are fully aware of in which they kept saying last world cup (2015) that Scmidt had a grand master plan for their team which never materialised.
I don't know how suggesting Gatland is biased towards Wselected elsh players somehow infers I think players of Welsh origin are inherently inferior. That's some severe mental gymnastics.

 

[User1245]

**** me, you should apply for the Olympics with the levels of mental gymnastics going on in that post.

You put me to shame with level of ethical gymnastics you needed to justify the taking advantage of school children for a political cause.

 

[User1245]

And ignored and reported, I'm not being accused of racism with completely out of context posts to build a straw-man argument.

Just using the same standards you apply to other people chump

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm guessing you're drunk or something because you're making literally no sense and just banging out accusations of racism and digging deeper and deeper.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I appreciate there's a level of tongue and cheek here but just for the record.

"Full Irish" is a in-joke in which Irish members are fully aware of in which they kept saying last world cup (2015) that Scmidt had a grand master plan for their team which never materialised.
I don't know how suggesting Gatland is biased towards Wselected elsh players somehow infers I think players of Welsh origin are inherently inferior. That's some severe mental gymnastics.

I understand that as a member of the lawyer class my people are partly to blame for the have to record everything. But it's ridiculous that you have to explain jokes cause the alt-right will cherry pick everything you say and look for any joke with a hint of insensitivity.

 

[User1245]

I'm guessing you're drunk or something because you're making literally no sense and just banging out accusations of racism and digging deeper and deeper.

I was clearly being hyperbolic to show him how irrational that definition was.

Keep dodging the school children thing though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What school children thing?
Thunberg?

You seem to think "The Left" is some illuminati like system using her as a pawn in their evil deep state game (saving the environment? Gotta be evil for that!).
The reality of the situation? She's incredibly passionate about the cause so started protests in her own country and her passion got her speaking gigs. She's been invited to more and more around the world as a guest to speak, winning multiple awards for speeches she's given. She travels to these by carbon neutral(?) means (boat etc.) to raise more attention to the fact.
She's been involved in climate change type protests long before she got internationally famous, winning awards in her home country for climate change debates/speeches.
This isn't something she's being forced to do, it's something she wants to do.

The only dodgy aspect of it is the level of hate and vitriol aimed at her as an easy target in the climate change debate, being both young and female and saying things that the alt-right dickheads in the world don't like. And she's handled all of that remarkably well.


Are you a climate change denier, by any chance?

 

[ncurd]

I understand that as a member of the lawyer class my people are partly to blame for the have to record everything. But it's ridiculous that you have to explain jokes cause the alt-right will cherry pick everything you say and look for any joke with a hint of insensitivity.

Its okay, sometimes lawyers are useful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

Not applicable in this case but an alt-right person is going to find them alot of trouble in the UK at some point.

Its interesting to note the difference between here and US alot of UK lawyers were baffled Elon Musk didn't have the book thrown at him the other day.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's quite telling that you don't want to give me a coherent list but decide to insult me instead. For goodness sake your list started with "Russian election rigging". Really? That's the first thing you'd list?

I've put the debate in your favour. Choose your 3 worst from the right and I'll reply with my worst 3 from the left, and then we can discuss how the left holds itself to higher ethical and moral standards (I've revised it from 5 to 3 because I'm replying to a few people and because you've decided to insult me instead of responding to a reasonable request, therefore wasting time).

But it seems you'd much rather sling **** and insult. What have I denied, denied, denied? How am I a "Trumper"? I've already said I think he is arrogant and narcissistic. Is it because I don't think he is the devil reincarnated and the people slinging **** at him are just as bad? I literally can't vote for the guy. I'm also an atheist through and through so trust me I have issues with the right, so I don't fall neatly into the category you'd like me to.
You'll see in my reply to ncurd coming soon that I actually think he has said bad things that I can't get behind and will criticize.

And I'll tell you what people are getting fed up with: the left's tendency to insult and shout down rather than to have a discussion. Then to grandstand and virtue signal all while they have equally bad or worse ethics as the very same people they paint as pure evil.
All gloves are off to them now. Fake claims and using children to further their means is fair game because they are so convinced that their dogmatic beliefs are true, so it's all justified.

Live in the echo chamber for all I care, I'm not here to change anybody's politics. But don't act like somebody holding up the mirror to the left's actions is the most egregious thing to do. I think you don't want me to hold the mirror up to what the left have been doing because then it's in your face and would require you to take a stance.

Just like how Greta's latest article is an inconvenient truth that: yes, she has a political agenda and yes, she used millions of children to further it unbeknownst to them. 99% of those kids are there to save animals by reducing fossil fuel usage.
But it's okay allow adults involved to knowingly mislead them because [insert justification here], so the left won't hold anybody responsible for the clearly misleading millions of children. They'll make that decision for the kids because what do they know, they're just kids. Except Greta, everybody should listen to her. The adults involved here have a lot to answer for.

My hope is that the left, in general, step back and look at the sick game they are letting their side play. Outcome overrides intent, always.

That list was perfectly coherent so stop making excuses. Yes Russian election rigging right near the top, or do you think that may not be one of the most important points? It's not about "3 worst" because that is a cheap tactic to ignore the fact that the quantity of those by Trump and his administration is far greater, as well as the severity. Do you seriously think I'm stupid enough to not notice that little ploy?

What have you denied? You called the entire list incoherent when it isn't, effectively trying to just palm off the entire thing.

And I'll tell you what people are getting fed up with: the left's tendency to insult and shout down rather than to have a discussion.

No, what people are getting tired of is how Trump is doing all this **** and people keep excusing it yet when Obama was in office those same people were making up scandals because there wasn't enough in reality to cling to. People are getting tired of how the right wing are overwhelmingly lying, denying, falsifying and generally showing no moral integrity and their supporters are just lapping it up. The "but but her emails" effect.

You aren't holding up a mirror to the left, you are confusing reflection with projection. For years the right have been slinging mud more than the left and just making up outright bullshit and at long last are actually getting some thrown back for their legitimate arsery and they get whiny. I mean ffs since I made that list you can add Johnson showing no concern for the child lying on the hospital floor, Johnson stealing the phone of the reporter trying to show it and the Tories lying about one of their aides being assaulted by a Labour party supporter who they claimed was bussed in by the party. More lies, more deceit, more immorality, more excuses and denial. It keeps adding up but you want to reduce it all down to 3 as a convenient way of ignoring the sheer quantity of it. You want a debate? Don't try to artificially reduce the number of accusations, address them properly. You cannot claim to want a debate and then try to dismiss everything that is uncomfortable to you and reduce the whole thing down to just 3 points.

Trump and the Republicans are destroying constitutional norms and basic decency in the USA
Johnson and the Conservatives are destroying constitutional norms, basic decency and the general welfare of the country here

Both cases they are blaming the left. For the Tories that is particularly laughable seeing as they have been in power for over a decade and have overseen the steady decline themselves.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Trump officially up for impeachment on two counts:
Obstructing Congress
and Abuse of Power

He'll probably get off because politicians always put party before country, but we can hope