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Oh FFS
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._of_the_union_was_un-american_treasonous.html

"Trump called the reaction from Democrats was "treasonous" and said they "didn't seem to love our country very much."

"They would rather see Trump do badly, okay, than our country do well. That's what it mean. It's very selfish. And it got to a point where I really didn't even want to look too much during the speech over to that side because honestly, it was bad energy. It was bad energy. You're up there, you've got half the room going totally crazy wild, they loved everything, they want to do something great for our country. And you have the other side, even on the positive news, really positive news like that, they were like death and un-American. Un-American. Somebody said treasonous. I mean, yeah, I guess, why not. Can we call that treason?"



"I mean they certainly didn't seem to love our country very much," he added. "So you look at that and it is very, very sad.
"
 
Not really surprised nor shocked - you know what you are getting with Donald Trump.

He could marry a penguin and I'd still not bat an eyelid.
 
In a step up from yesterday's news.
He now wants a military parade in his honour; like all the best dictatorships have:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...91602206fb7_story.html?utm_term=.08c5e0d7ec63

I'll be honest, I'm actually quite surprised America does already do this, it seems right up their alley. Maybe they start enough wars that they don't feel the need.
Who needs parades when we are constantly bombarded with ads telling us how great the military is?
 
Sorry But I am pretty bored of hearing radical feminism every day on the bbc news ...Many many other parts of society are discriminated against and under-represented lack support and finance, from the disabled, to the elderly the minorities, the blind the sick the diseased. I feel the fmeinist movement is now getting a disproportiate share of the coverage and in some cases the finances. Disabled issues seem to have disappeared. Yet I see many new builds and old ones too still lack simple things like decent disabled access. There isnt even a word for discrimination against disabled people as there is for all other groups discriminated against. Women have all the same rights as men, so I really think the sheer weight of feminist news is disproportionate. I realise I am in the minority on this and if I was to state this opinion whilst at work I would probably be sacked as freedom of speech has been dangerously eroded, but there it is thats how I feel.
 
Not really surprised nor shocked - you know what you are getting with Donald Trump.

He could marry a penguin and I'd still not bat an eyelid.

Its high time the dems let the russian conspiracy go and fight the campaigns and the issues, this nonsense is not helping americans. At least their economy is booming.
 
Sorry But I am pretty bored of hearing radical feminism every day on the bbc news ...Many many other parts of society are discriminated against and under-represented lack support and finance, from the disabled, to the elderly the minorities, the blind the sick the diseased. I feel the fmeinist movement is now getting a disproportiate share of the coverage and in some cases the finances. Disabled issues seem to have disappeared. Yet I see many new builds and old ones too still lack simple things like decent disabled access. There isnt even a word for discrimination against disabled people as there is for all other groups discriminated against. Women have all the same rights as men, so I really think the sheer weight of feminist news is disproportionate. I realise I am in the minority on this and if I was to state this opinion whilst at work I would probably be sacked as freedom of speech has been dangerously eroded, but there it is thats how I feel.

I'm half black myself and could not agree with you more.

The issue is that when those in charge think that everybody is the same as them, they can apply their group-think universally. Just because they think it's right does not make it right for everybody.

When you scratch the surface, it's almost entirely political - Lyndon B. Johnson once commented that he'd have 'N---ers voting Democrat for the next 200 years' and Neil Kinnock similarly went for Identity Politics in the 1980s encouraging the 'marginalised' to vote Labour without realising that he was marginalising others in the process. It was the Poor, Meek & Defenceless v The Nasty Rich and has remained that ever since.

What we need to realise is that we are all individuals and group-think/identity politics belongs in the bin:

* Not every black person is poor - just look at the Aviva Premiership to see how many rich black players there are playing for clubs.

* Not every homosexual person is defenceless or a victim - they are fairly robust and can defend themselves and answer for their own behaviour.

* Not every woman is discriminated against - there are other factors other than sex/gender which determines an individual's success, though yes blatantly discriminatory behaviour needs to be called out.

* Not every white person has privilege or wealth, there are many examples of white families struggling and dependent upon help across the country.

Liberals and the Left tend to take the view of 'if it feels right, then it must be right' and this, IMO, is where they fall down. I believe it is better to consider each person as an individual and do what is best for them, even if it goes against what you believe is the right thing. I believe that most people on the Left genuinely do care, but they are blinded by dogma and learned thinking without realising that what works for one does not work for all.

Ultimately what is more important - gathering votes from seemingly disenfranchised people, and in the end they say disenfranchised, or doing a root and branch reform of society and helping everybody regardless of race, colour, creed etc. whereby we all win?
 
I'm half black myself and could not agree with you more.

The issue is that when those in charge think that everybody is the same as them, they can apply their group-think universally. Just because they think it's right does not make it right for everybody.

When you scratch the surface, it's almost entirely political - Lyndon B. Johnson once commented that he'd have 'N---ers voting Democrat for the next 200 years' and Neil Kinnock similarly went for Identity Politics in the 1980s encouraging the 'marginalised' to vote Labour without realising that he was marginalising others in the process. It was the Poor, Meek & Defenceless v The Nasty Rich and has remained that ever since.

What we need to realise is that we are all individuals and group-think/identity politics belongs in the bin:

* Not every black person is poor - just look at the Aviva Premiership to see how many rich black players there are playing for clubs.

* Not every homosexual person is defenceless or a victim - they are fairly robust and can defend themselves and answer for their own behaviour.

* Not every woman is discriminated against - there are other factors other than sex/gender which determines an individual's success, though yes blatantly discriminatory behaviour needs to be called out.

* Not every white person has privilege or wealth, there are many examples of white families struggling and dependent upon help across the country.

Liberals and the Left tend to take the view of 'if it feels right, then it must be right' and this, IMO, is where they fall down. I believe it is better to consider each person as an individual and do what is best for them, even if it goes against what you believe is the right thing. I believe that most people on the Left genuinely do care, but they are blinded by dogma and learned thinking without realising that what works for one does not work for all.

Ultimately what is more important - gathering votes from seemingly disenfranchised people, and in the end they say disenfranchised, or doing a root and branch reform of society and helping everybody regardless of race, colour, creed etc. whereby we all win?


Hello gareth nice to meet you

I hate identity politics. Its clearly now being taught in the schools and colleges and is phenomenally dangerous. even women are now victim to the radical feminists as women are banned from working in loads of jobs now. Even basic flirting is virtually outlawed now. The radical element of feminism as with all radicals should have been stopped years ago and as if a disabled person or a black person should automatically vote left as they SAY they will help more. The reality is the economy is vital to all people and the better its run the better for all. Even the much mocked trump has seen unemployment fall to record lows for women, african americans too. Though again no mention of the disabled in statistics.
 
When #metoo results in virtually every woman I know on Facebook discribing things that have happened to them from levels of minor digust to illegal beyond reproach. I think I can safely assume male privledge does exist.

As does white privledge it doesn't mean every white male is going to make it in life bit the odds are heavily stacked in their favour.

But most people like to play the simple arguments you just played out. Because some do beat the odds we should ignore there is a problem is essentially what you are saying.



I do like how someone who pertually is insistant they have no political bias bang on about the left and liberals a lot and how flawed it is.

Equality is a simple thing to achive in law and practice you make every person equal. You then enforce that law (gender pay gaps of people doing equal jobs shows this is not happening but equal measure many firms don't put equal rights to men for taking time off as paternity pay by not making that right equal to men it's actually women who suffer as they have to take the burden of raising young children). Liberalism is about making sure all people are treated equally without prejudice regardless of who they are and I think too many people like yourself like to pretend because they have succeeded this prejudice does not inherently exist.



Just as a note I find this topic a little distasteful a day after we just marked 100 years since some women were allowed to vote. It's meant to be time to reflect not attack feminism.
 
Would fully agree that identity politics are toxic and should have no place in a society, but when you have a two party system like in America for example, it's easy to see how people fall into this trap so easily.
Its high time the dems let the russian conspiracy go and fight the campaigns and the issues, this nonsense is not helping americans. At least their economy is booming.
Dems like lifelong republican and Bush appointee Robert Mueller? Any possible interference in the democratic election process by foreign entities is a disgrace and needs to be investigated, hence why the probe has bi-partisan support and is not just a democrat talking point.
Even the much mocked trump has seen unemployment fall to record lows for women, african americans too. Though again no mention of the disabled in statistics.
On the economy point, the economy is indeed doing well and following the trend started relatively early in the Obama presidency, whereby unemployment has fallen year on year. The decrease in unemployment hasn't sped up or slowed down under Trump to any noticeable extent. The effect of Trump's policies so far, positive or negative won't be seen for some time. Also important to note that minority unemployment rates haven't fallen faster than any other group under either president. They tend to all fall together pretty steadily although black unemployment is still pretty high compared to other groups.
I know this has nothing to do with the original debate about identity politics, so apologies if I've taken it off topic, just wanted to comment on these two points.
 
When #metoo results in virtually every woman I know on Facebook discribing things that have happened to them from levels of minor digust to illegal beyond reproach. I think I can safely assume male privledge does exist.

As does white privledge it doesn't mean every white male is going to make it in life bit the odds are heavily stacked in their favour.

But most people like to play the simple arguments you just played out. Because some do beat the odds we should ignore there is a problem is essentially what you are saying.



I do like how someone who pertually is insistant they have no political bias bang on about the left and liberals a lot and how flawed it is.

Equality is a simple thing to achive in law and practice you make every person equal. You then enforce that law (gender pay gaps of people doing equal jobs shows this is not happening but equal measure many firms don't put equal rights to men for taking time off as paternity pay by not making that right equal to men it's actually women who suffer as they have to take the burden of raising young children). Liberalism is about making sure all people are treated equally without prejudice regardless of who they are and I think too many people like yourself like to pretend because they have succeeded this prejudice does not inherently exist.



Just as a note I find this topic a little distasteful a day after we just marked 100 years since some women were allowed to vote. It's meant to be time to reflect not attack feminism.
When #metoo results in virtually every woman I know on Facebook discribing things that have happened to them from levels of minor digust to illegal beyond reproach. I think I can safely assume male privledge does exist.

As does white privledge it doesn't mean every white male is going to make it in life bit the odds are heavily stacked in their favour.

But most people like to play the simple arguments you just played out. Because some do beat the odds we should ignore there is a problem is essentially what you are saying.



I do like how someone who pertually is insistant they have no political bias bang on about the left and liberals a lot and how flawed it is.

Equality is a simple thing to achive in law and practice you make every person equal. You then enforce that law (gender pay gaps of people doing equal jobs shows this is not happening but equal measure many firms don't put equal rights to men for taking time off as paternity pay by not making that right equal to men it's actually women who suffer as they have to take the burden of raising young children). Liberalism is about making sure all people are treated equally without prejudice regardless of who they are and I think too many people like yourself like to pretend because they have succeeded this prejudice does not inherently exist.



Just as a note I find this topic a little distasteful a day after we just marked 100 years since some women were allowed to vote. It's meant to be time to reflect not attack feminism.

I was waiting for someone to claim to be offended , its ridiculous. Anyways dont worry soon all conversation will be banned and everything will be black and white and the whole world will be far worse off including for women too who will be banned from doing 100s of jobs and mothers will be looked down upon for choosing to stay at home. Equality has been achieved, IF a woman is paid less than a man OR vice versa when they do the exact same job to the exact same level then they can go to court and sue for damages.

As for feminism it should be scrapped in favour of simply equal opportunities now. The trouble with feminism is it ONLY targets areas where women are behind men allegedly. BUT it ignores ALL the mass of areas where men are way behind women

Heres just a few areas totally ignored by media and government in the UK

1) Boys are light years behind girls in schools. In fact white boys especially fare the worst of all groups at all ages. There are almost no male teachers in nursaries, very few in primary either (less than 10%) nearly half of children do not live with their fathers so have no male role model and this is proved to affect boys even moreso.

2) Women have far more spending power. Despite the overall average being 2% behind men , in many cases the women are in charge of the house budget and the money in joint accounts. The vast majority of the women get the benefits too. family allowance etc

3) 85% of divorces see women get to keep the family home, the children and half their ex partners incomes. Plus any social security benefits goes to the mothers. In many of these cases the men lose everything. This is why 90% of the homeless are men. No one ever mentions this fact.

4) men die 5 years younger than women in every nation on earth. why doesnt feminism or equality tackle that

5) men kill themselves at 5 times the rate of women in every nation on earth , why doesnt feminism or equality tackle that

6) cancer kills far more men than women. sorry to be blunt it does. yet the funing for womens cnacers is 2 and a half times the level of funding for mens cancer. Breats cancer for women has fallen every year for decade and thats marvellous. But at the same time male prostate has risen every year to record levels. why doesnt feminism or equality do something about that? The funding comes from the same pot, so its a clear case of womens lives being priorised as more important than mens

7) In everyday culture , men get sacked for the a misplaced comment or even a joke about a female referee. meanwhile the term stale male and pale is trotted out by feminists to denigrade men and despite this being racist, ageist, sexist its allowed to continue. This inherent double standard should be called out.

8) The BBC is inherently biased and the pro feminist stories outweigh those of mens issue at a rate of 20 to 1. I actually went on question time once OFF CAMERA by dimbleby and was told prior to the start that NO MEN could ask the main questions that night. I wrote to complain , no one responded. Meanwhile women only shortlists continue. totally undemocratic , discriminatory and illegal. They say its fine as we want parliament to LOOK like the public? Yet they only have 1 disabled MP when millions of the public have disablilities? Imagine these women only towns? imagine some of the millions of brilliant men banned from running for that party? all that talent lost to parliament forever due to this slavish biased anti democratic anti free speech dogma. best PERSON FOR THE JOB, end of. Oh and if you care about equal opportunities lets have some more disabled acccess please? much of westminster is very difficult for wheelchair users as are 1000s of builings across the UK.

9) There are 1000s more outlets charities refuges for women. Again thats due to funding and the end result is 90% homeless are men.

10) Revisionist history taught in schools. Black or white all men bad all women good. No context. LLoyd george a man gave women the vote that is ignored. 5.6 million men were not allowed to vote either in 1918. Prior to that working class men barely had the right to vote as it was all controlled by their phenomenally wealthy landowners. 120 years ago the working class MEN were mostly dying in rich peoples wars , or shot for refusing to fight. Those who did stay at home nearly all died of TB in a coal pit or slate quarry working for a slaves wage. Mans world? 80 million poor working class young men died in world war 2. Millions more died in world war 1 fighting for the uber rich. Vietnam the average age was 19 year old boys.

Its a rich PERSONS WORLD. the blair women mps 98% of them voted for the illegal iraq war so shoe horning women in just because their women is not only morally repugnant and anti democratic it will not change the world for the better. We needed a movement 100 years ago. Now all we need is balance and fairness. We are not getting it and at this rate eevryone will be worse off, including women
 
Interestingly, Ncurd, #MeToo has become in part yet another dumb-dumb bullet for people like yourself to use.

A post in The Washington Times commented on the movement thus:

'There's an obvious difference between an alleged serial rapist and harasser, such as Weinstein, and someone who has consensual sex with a large number of women. But the distinction between behavior that is illegal and actions that are legal isn't the only dividing line worth drawing here. There's also a contrast between someone who sleeps with a lot of people on terms that are clear and acceptable to everyone involved, and someone who conducts themselves in such a way that their partners end up feeling misled or disappointed about the nature of their encounters. That distinction is between conduct that is ethical and that which ranges from morally dubious to outright unethical (but does not rise to the level of criminal).'

Strangely enough, I was reading an online article about the dangers of these self-styled Paedophile Vigilante Groups and are they (like the #MeToo movement) capable of doing more harm than good? Yes, rapists and peadophiles deserve no mercy, but when we can label people we dislike in the most reprehensible of terms is there not a danger of false accusations being made? What if an ex-partner or business colleague has a grudge against a person and thinks that this is a good way to get back at him/her?

If you didn't like Person A, and spread rumours about him being a pervert, it is not long before you get an angry mob going after him irrespective of his innocence. In the modern age, you can be judge, jury and executioner. Just as in the Ched Evans case, it was a false allegation which led to a court case which ultimately should not have happened irrespective of Ched's morals (or indeed lack of).

If privilege is such an issue, then let nobody have any - everything we then earn in life is what we have achieved by right. The fact is that there are a lot of hard-working people in the world and there are equally a lot of lazy people in the world. Work + effort should = reward, but we all know that is not the case and there are cases of people cheating to get ahead, or nepotism or whatever. I accept that society is not fair and not equal, but it is this which should entice people to do better. If there was a better parity rather than equality between us all, I would definitely accept that.

I point out the flaws on the left, because you and others are too obstinately blind to accept that there are any flaws - instead you repeat the same old rhetoric ad infinitum; i.e. it's not our fault, we're not interested, we can't be bothered to listen to a point of view which does not agree with us tra-la-la-la-la. The Right points out its flaws for us, so really I don't need to comment on racists and bigots on the right because everybody with an IQ of 1 or more knows that they are both wrong and a waste of time and DNA.

Equality is impossible to achieve - you can't say that for example you and I are the same. We're two very different people and we'll never agree on anything - that is brilliant, and both of our thoughts and opinions are needed in society with neither superseding the other. Also, somebody might work less hours than their male/female counterpart - should that person be paid the same? What if a man goes for a job miles away from home, because he is single and adaptable and can work late when needed - should he be barred from getting that job and instead should it be given to a young mother who doesn't want the job anyway nor the hassle of moving to another part of the country? You cannot treat people the same either - sure, a modicum of respect is always good, but we are all different and need to be handled differently - would you speak with a Disabled Person with Learning Difficulties the same way as you would a University Professor/Academic? I know that's one basic example, but no you wouldn't. It's different strokes for different folks.

If you do indeed care about improving the quality of life for people like me who have come from nothing to become relatively something, you need to focus less on the virtue-signalling and more on action - better quality education, the chance to make it in the workplace or to start up businesses and enterprises, how to budget responsibly, how to run a home and become a man without going down the route of drugs and crime.

I see your last point, and say that that we should use yesterday to not be silent and reflective but to unite and talk together about creating a better society for all. Not just for me, nor for you, but for all. I hear what you are saying, but I think that you need to listen as well and for it not just to be a token gesture.
 
When #metoo results in virtually every woman I know on Facebook discribing things that have happened to them from levels of minor digust to illegal beyond reproach. I think I can safely assume male privledge does exist.

As does white privledge it doesn't mean every white male is going to make it in life bit the odds are heavily stacked in their favour.

But most people like to play the simple arguments you just played out. Because some do beat the odds we should ignore there is a problem is essentially what you are saying.



I do like how someone who pertually is insistant they have no political bias bang on about the left and liberals a lot and how flawed it is.

Equality is a simple thing to achive in law and practice you make every person equal. You then enforce that law (gender pay gaps of people doing equal jobs shows this is not happening but equal measure many firms don't put equal rights to men for taking time off as paternity pay by not making that right equal to men it's actually women who suffer as they have to take the burden of raising young children). Liberalism is about making sure all people are treated equally without prejudice regardless of who they are and I think too many people like yourself like to pretend because they have succeeded this prejudice does not inherently exist.



Just as a note I find this topic a little distasteful a day after we just marked 100 years since some women were allowed to vote. It's meant to be time to reflect not attack feminism.

As for male privelige. well no one calls out women in the board room for their lewd crude behaviour. Its time they did. Ive worked with 1000s of women and men in banks mainly and ALL the lewd comments came from women. As for the way men and women behave. Well have you ever seen the way women behave at one direction concerts or any other boy band? Or back in the day with tom jones, rolling stones etc They tore their clothes off? They grabbed everything. Ever seen a female or male stripper at clubs? The men NEVER EVER touch the stripped she controls everything. the women grab every part of the male stripper. The double standards are simply staggering.
 
I was waiting for someone to claim to be offended , its ridiculous. Anyways dont worry soon all conversation will be banned and everything will be black and white and the whole world will be far worse off including for women too who will be banned from doing 100s of jobs and mothers will be looked down upon for choosing to stay at home. Equality has been achieved, IF a woman is paid less than a man OR vice versa when they do the exact same job to the exact same level then they can go to court and sue for damages.

As for feminism it should be scrapped in favour of simply equal opportunities now. The trouble with feminism is it ONLY targets areas where women are behind men allegedly. BUT it ignores ALL the mass of areas where men are way behind women

Heres just a few areas totally ignored by media and government in the UK

1) Boys are light years behind girls in schools. In fact white boys especially fare the worst of all groups at all ages. There are almost no male teachers in nursaries, very few in primary either (less than 10%) nearly half of children do not live with their fathers so have no male role model and this is proved to affect boys even moreso.

2) Women have far more spending power. Despite the overall average being 2% behind men , in many cases the women are in charge of the house budget and the money in joint accounts. The vast majority of the women get the benefits too. family allowance etc

3) 85% of divorces see women get to keep the family home, the children and half their ex partners incomes. Plus any social security benefits goes to the mothers. In many of these cases the men lose everything. This is why 90% of the homeless are men. No one ever mentions this fact.

4) men die 5 years younger than women in every nation on earth. why doesnt feminism or equality tackle that

5) men kill themselves at 5 times the rate of women in every nation on earth , why doesnt feminism or equality tackle that

6) cancer kills far more men than women. sorry to be blunt it does. yet the funing for womens cnacers is 2 and a half times the level of funding for mens cancer. Breats cancer for women has fallen every year for decade and thats marvellous. But at the same time male prostate has risen every year to record levels. why doesnt feminism or equality do something about that? The funding comes from the same pot, so its a clear case of womens lives being priorised as more important than mens

7) In everyday culture , men get sacked for the a misplaced comment or even a joke about a female referee. meanwhile the term stale male and pale is trotted out by feminists to denigrade men and despite this being racist, ageist, sexist its allowed to continue. This inherent double standard should be called out.

8) The BBC is inherently biased and the pro feminist stories outweigh those of mens issue at a rate of 20 to 1. I actually went on question time once OFF CAMERA by dimbleby and was told prior to the start that NO MEN could ask the main questions that night. I wrote to complain , no one responded. Meanwhile women only shortlists continue. totally undemocratic , discriminatory and illegal. They say its fine as we want parliament to LOOK like the public? Yet they only have 1 disabled MP when millions of the public have disablilities? Imagine these women only towns? imagine some of the millions of brilliant men banned from running for that party? all that talent lost to parliament forever due to this slavish biased anti democratic anti free speech dogma. best PERSON FOR THE JOB, end of. Oh and if you care about equal opportunities lets have some more disabled acccess please? much of westminster is very difficult for wheelchair users as are 1000s of builings across the UK.

9) There are 1000s more outlets charities refuges for women. Again thats due to funding and the end result is 90% homeless are men.

10) Revisionist history taught in schools. Black or white all men bad all women good. No context. LLoyd george a man gave women the vote that is ignored. 5.6 million men were not allowed to vote either in 1918. Prior to that working class men barely had the right to vote as it was all controlled by their phenomenally wealthy landowners. 120 years ago the working class MEN were mostly dying in rich peoples wars , or shot for refusing to fight. Those who did stay at home nearly all died of TB in a coal pit or slate quarry working for a slaves wage. Mans world? 80 million poor working class young men died in world war 2. Millions more died in world war 1 fighting for the uber rich. Vietnam the average age was 19 year old boys.

Its a rich PERSONS WORLD. the blair women mps 98% of them voted for the illegal iraq war so shoe horning women in just because their women is not only morally repugnant and anti democratic it will not change the world for the better. We needed a movement 100 years ago. Now all we need is balance and fairness. We are not getting it and at this rate eevryone will be worse off, including women

What you will find on here amongst the Liberal 'clique' is that they are mainly from well-to-do areas and themselves are likely to have been born into privilege.

Muggins here was born into a grotty council flat and worked his ass off, despite my surroundings where it was easier to deal drugs than work hard and scrape together a living. Yet I am a sh*tty right wing racist for not chugging the liberal Kool Aid, and I don't understand life.
 
Yeah your definitely a crack pot, I'm just going to ignore your posts.

Point one almost had me burst out laughing.

Et voila! That is what the left thinks of anybody who disagrees with them.

To think that he was going to/did stand for political office as well.
 
Yeah your definitely a crack pot, I'm just going to ignore your posts.

Point one almost had me burst out laughing.
Ah here we go the left gets personal and abusive after just a few posts instead of sticking to the topic at hand.
Yeah sure boys falling way behind in education and the rise in male youth suicide is hilarious. I shall ignore you too.
 
GarethGritthis

Can you please stop labelling me as virtue signaller who does nothing. I assure you that I am none of those things.
 
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