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That is true, and there is now a Welsh Independence movement (not Plaid Cymru, I hasten to add).

Personally, I don't think that there should be a second vote, and I genuinely think it would be a bigger Leave vote second time around.

I'm not sad but not excited that we are leaving - a distinct shade of 'meh' here. Had the EU stayed as a free trade platform, instead of a Political Monolith run by Germany and France, then I think we'd have stayed for sure.

Economically, I supported Leave (Mark Blyth's videos are well worth a look regardless of your stance), but I would like to know what we are entering into 2019 and beyond- I can't see that a strong and important nation like the UK would be allowed to be independent on the global scene (i.e. to withdraw our power and influence) especially during a time when Russia is problematic and North Korea is...well... North Korea.

Globalists will not allow the UK to sit out things, so I just wonder how the UK can be a sovereign and independent nation and yet have a voice internationally.
 
That is true, and there is now a Welsh Independence movement (not Plaid Cymru, I hasten to add).

Personally, I don't think that there should be a second vote, and I genuinely think it would be a bigger Leave vote second time around.

I'm not sad but not excited that we are leaving - a distinct shade of 'meh' here. Had the EU stayed as a free trade platform, instead of a Political Monolith run by Germany and France, then I think we'd have stayed for sure.

Economically, I supported Leave (Mark Blyth's videos are well worth a look regardless of your stance), but I would like to know what we are entering into 2019 and beyond- I can't see that a strong and important nation like the UK would be allowed to be independent on the global scene (i.e. to withdraw our power and influence) especially during a time when Russia is problematic and North Korea is...well... North Korea.

Globalists will not allow the UK to sit out things, so I just wonder how the UK can be a sovereign and independent nation and yet have a voice internationally.

The whole political monolith is used as a bad point whilst ignoring the massive positive. Somewhere like China would be very wary trying to play silly buggers with EU trade as a tool for political coercion because of the weight the EU economy has in China. They would be perfectly happy to play silly buggers with any of the individual EU countries though. The cold war showed what happened when Europe couldn't present a united front against world superpowers, we became the proxy for them and very much took the back seat in world politics.

Those who voted leave portray it as taking back control and reestablishing ourselves on the world stage. The former will be to a much lesser extent than they portrayed, even with a complete no deal split, whilst the latter simply won't happen at all. We will be a moderate world power next to potentially a new power that could rival even the USA. Being part of that club offered us certain protections from other foreign powers taking advantage, we are unlikely to get that outside it. We will also still rely on the whims of Brussels for a variety of things, just as we have to rely on the whims of the USA. As with the USA we will no longer have a say. Also the idea that the EU is run by Germany and France is massively belittling our own position in the EU. We have been one of the, if not the most influential member of the EU.

So yeah we can be independent of the EU but I found many leavers also tied leaving in with the idea of this great, resurgent Britain... As a fully independent country we also need to accept that we are letting go of the reins and will be more of an observer than a driver of international politics. The pseudo-imperialists can kiss goodbye to any delusions of some British sphere of influence in the commonwealth competing with the superpowers.
 
Personally, I don't mind the UK taking a back seat for a while and observing, when it comes to being a Global Leader especially with such things as involvement with war.

Iraq and Afghanistan being relatively fresh in the mind. I would not want us involved in a similar event in years to come.

If only the top brass of the EU shared your positivity about the UK, Ragerancher. What are we now according to Verhofstadt and co? I think that the terminology and tone used since the Brexit talks started has not been that favourable.

The main thing that has, and always will, concern me is economic growth and jobs. With FutureTech and the businesses and needs and wants of tomorrow, I think that now is a good time to invest wholesale in this across the UK. However, I would invest first in the poorer Leave areas and give them the skilled/semi-skilled Tech jobs.

Things like train building at Newton Aycliffe (where the new Inter City 125 successor trains are being built) shows that it can be done - yes it involves international companies (Hitachi, in this case) but also smaller British firms will see a boost as they can supply Hitachi and the other larger companies (in the case of building the new trains, things such as seating; LED lights; toilets and hand basins; food for the buffet cars etc.)
 
Personally, I don't mind the UK taking a back seat for a while and observing, when it comes to being a Global Leader especially with such things as involvement with war.

Iraq and Afghanistan being relatively fresh in the mind. I would not want us involved in a similar event in years to come.

If only the top brass of the EU shared your positivity about the UK, Ragerancher. What are we now according to Verhofstadt and co? I think that the terminology and tone used since the Brexit talks started has not been that favourable.

The main thing that has, and always will, concern me is economic growth and jobs. With FutureTech and the businesses and needs and wants of tomorrow, I think that now is a good time to invest wholesale in this across the UK. However, I would invest first in the poorer Leave areas and give them the skilled/semi-skilled Tech jobs.

Things like train building at Newton Aycliffe (where the new Inter City 125 successor trains are being built) shows that it can be done - yes it involves international companies (Hitachi, in this case) but also smaller British firms will see a boost as they can supply Hitachi and the other larger companies (in the case of building the new trains, things such as seating; LED lights; toilets and hand basins; food for the buffet cars etc.)

The government has years and years to invest in poorer area and has consistently failed to do so. Funny enough the EU was more concerned about funding poor areas than the British government is. When we leave the EU funding will vanish and it certainly won't be replaced by UK funding. For all their talk the UK government cares very little for anything North or West of Oxford. We have the greatest concentration of the total country wealth in our capital of any major world economy.
 
The problem is how are the government going to pay for it. The vast majority of economists say Brexit will bad for the economy. To get foreign investment we will likely need to lower taxes and this whilst the cost of importing matetials to build things will cost more. With the lower tax revenues you have distinctly less money for investment and we already already have an NHS that's struggling massively and can't get employ enough nurses. In turn the teaching of skilled worker in tech jobs is not working because those in tech jobs like myself can earn far more doing rather than teaching. I don't see the investment going in that area either why because there will be no money. I know you have some pie in the sky idea about Ali's and home schooling but that technology is likely decades off every self taught programmer I've met has ultimately been rubbish when it comes to complex projects because they have no idea how structure anything properly.

You look at great in tech Bill Gates, Mark Zukerbuerg, Steve Wozniak, Elon Musk even found of you tube and Google you'll fine they are all university educated people. Sure you'll get the odd genius that beats the curve but in my current job we won't even look at CV of someone with no experience without an Upper 2nd Degree and that's pretty much common place. Even out software apprentices are expected to complete degrees as part of their apprenticeship.



So yes I think it's fair to say unless you want to ignore most economists (abit like ignoring scientists about global warming or vaccines) to fit your world view. It's very unlikely the UK will have money to invest. There a reason why we joined the EEC in 1975 and one the main reasons was because our economy was down the toilet. Now with less trappings of Empire than we did then I fail.tonsee how anyone thinks it will be any better.

You know what companies like Hitachi will most likely do when we leave the EU? Set up shop in the EU for their next big plan.
 
Also or else what? Very few jn the current goverment supported Brexit for these very reasons. And despite Labour just rolling over at every crucial pass on Brexit also the vast majority of their MPs were against Brexit for the same reasons.

When there is no investment and the government can't afford things they will blame Brexit until the end of time. And for once they won't be passing buck they'd be right. The IFS compared the economic spending plans of both the major parties and the the Lib Dems and discovered according to plans that despite everything both Labour and the Conservatives would make everyone significantly less well (especially the poorest in society) off because they decided they'd go through with Brexit no matter what. The Lib Dems however because they stop Brexit would have vastly more money to spend and be better off.



The economy and it's importance is why I can't support Brexit and nothing yet has shown me why the prediction aren't wrong. Wages have slowed and inflation has increased vastly (the RPI even more so which some consider a better indicator). There is no sign that the deal for trade will lead anything other than a decrease in trade with other foreign country's for a significant amount of time. Try to remember most Bexiteer will tell you they expected some pain but it will be all right in the end. The problem is none will talk about knock on effect of that pain.
 
Low taxes does not bother countries like Switzerland, for example. People living in Switzerland shoulder one of the lowest income tax burdens in the world, according to the latest research from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

Single people have the sixth lowest tax burden of the 34 OECD countries, while families (defined as a couple with one income earner and two children) are the fourth best off in terms of state levies on income.

Perhaps introducing a 20% flat rate tax would work better?

The issue which gets overlooked (perhaps deliberately) by those on the Left is that with an ever increasing population and people living longer, of course there is going to be strain on the infrastructure of the country including the NHS. However (and controversial post/trigger warning) the NHS does not help itself and is recklessly unaccountable. Proof? What about the £14m paid out so that women from abroad could come to the UK and have their babies here? These women have all offered to pay the NHS for the great service which they provide, but the NHS does not seem willing to charge them. A friend of mine suffered a broken leg whilst on holiday in Australia, and he was treated in hospital there but had to pay for his treatment. So if Australia and other countries can charge people for operations then why can't we here? Also, an elderly neighbour of mine recently had to undergo hip surgery, and she reckons that the NHS paid over £500 for her taxi trips to and from Spire in Cardiff. She would have had to have waited a year extra on the NHS, but Spire could do both hips in two months (from initial consultancy to operation). Stop the waste and maybe the NHS can survive long term (and also invest more in nurses than in admin non-jobs - also nobody working for the NHS should be paid more than the PM.)

AI Working (I think that's what you meant instead of Ali's) - well, according to some reports a 'Westworld' type world is not that far off even nowadays:

https://insights.samsung.com/2016/1...ial-intelligence-may-be-closer-than-we-think/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/digital-leaders/horizons/telegraph-horizons-future-is-close/

https://www.itproportal.com/2016/06...-intelligence-is-a-lot-closer-than-you-think/

Those are just three of many. Even new mobile phones are fitted with retina detecting technology, and contactless payment cards are pretty much standard these days whereas even a few years ago they were considered 'many many years away from reality.' The pace of the world is changing and AI development is bound to increase.

My thoughts on Home Schooling are that it should be for pupils who don't fit the schools they would otherwise have to go to. I may be in a minority, but I feel that it is wrong for a child to have to go to school if he/she feels threatened or intimidated there, if the teaching is not up to standard, if the child in question cannot understand what is being taught - or if the teacher will not explain in a way that he/she can better understand, or if the child in question feels bored and under-stimulated. I believe that the money should follow the child, not the child follow the money, and if that child could learn better outside of school then that's what should happen. Yes, most children will be fine attending school, but you have to allow and accept that certain children will never fit in within the classroom environment and it may even cause them harm being there.

Whilst I accept that you have a negative outlook on Brexit, which is your right, that is just your thoughts and feelings. It doesn't mean that they are de facto right and must not be questioned - there are many experts who are saying the opposite and can easily make as good a case for a prosperous future as you can make for a negative and horrible one. The fact is that we do not know for sure as we have not yet lived through the aftermath of Brexit.

Or else what - or else the Government of the day takes an absolute hiding for using excuses it can no longer make. If we are not in the EU then we cannot blame them for any failings and shortcomings on our behalf. We make our bed, we lie in it and do not blame anybody else.

Ah the IFS - Institute for Fiscal Studies? The same IFS which, according to the BBC's Reality Check: '... is funded from a range of sources. The largest proportion of the IFS' income comes from the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC). The IFS also receives funding from the European Union, UK government departments and private corporations.

No wonder they are so for the pro-EU Liberal Democrats! I mean duh!

It's fine that you don't support Brexit, Ncurd, but not everybody thinks or believes the same way that you do. Remainers and Leavers (and those undecided) will never agree on Brexit, but maybe if both lots focused on saying 'what happens to the UK for the next 20/30 years is of more importance than our petty squabbles' then we might get somewhere.

Data and statistics can be used by either side to back up their argument, and it still doesn't mean that it's the 100% gospel truth. As Vic Reeves once said '88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.'

 
What a fucking pussy!
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/donald-tru...ont-visit-uk-unless-she-bans-protests-1656638
Donald Trump is refusing to visit the UK unless Theresa May can ensure that he is not met with protests.

Bloomberg revealed that Trump complained in a phone call to May about the "negative coverage" he has received in the British press.

May told the US president that that was how the UK media operated and she could do little to change it.

Trump went on to say that he would not visit the UK unless there were guarantees that he would not be met with protests.

Advisers who had been listening to the phone call are reported to have been "astonished" at the demands.

The pair are due to meet for bilateral talks at the World Economic Forum in Davos today (25 January).

Trump's complaints and demands are the latest indicator of the increasingly fractious "special" relationship between the UK and US after Trump pulled out of a visit to Britain.
 
Whilst I believe in the right to protest, I hope that people can see sense and that violence (which would no doubt ferment in this case) is not part of it.

Good behaviour is needed on both sides.
 
There is wide spread unhappiness in England, the country is divided, I'm sure there will be a real problem if Trump the billionaire shows up
 
Whilst I get that he is as popular as a fart in a spacesuit, he still has to come here at some point as the elected representative of the USA - one of the most powerful nations on the planet and one of our supposed key allies.

I am more concerned with how he is helping the USA's economy than anything else. The USA did not elect the Pope, so let's not go down the road of reeling and wailing when he says something daft - we know what he's like, so it's a waste of time moaning about this facet.

As you rightly point out, The Jones Boy, we are a very divided nation but that is not Trump's fault - I put the blame for that at the doors of people on both sides of the political divide who would rather be offended and butt-hurt than work together to reconcile their differences. It is all to easy to be offended and demand adherence from people, or to be 'triggered', it's harder to forgive and sort out differences (even if it is 'live and let live').

Until Common Sense comes back, we will continue to divide as a nation and the madness will ensue.
 
Trump is hardly someone who is birding the divide and quelling the fire though he regularly pours gasoline on it.

To me our leaders need to represent us as a society and its more than doing 'good job with economy' leading a nation and government has a lot more to it (makes a solid foundation for being able to spend money on stuff though). So if people want to protest at us giving the welcoming mat to a known racist, misogynist and has been caught admitting to sexual caught in the past in a peaceful manner I'm going to sit there wailing about caring more about what divides us than bring us together. Trump entire mantra has been about pandering to a large minority by making those in smaller minorities scape goats and something to be railed against.

It is not someone I particularly like doing business with and if it weren't for Brexit we probably wouldn't be this cosy but we need him to play nice when comes to trade deals and he has the biggest economy.
 
as long as UK and USA are at odds then other nations can breathe easy that theyre safe from being invaded for non existent weapons of mass distraction.
trump maybe a dik but he hasnt invaded anyone and caused hundreds of 1000's of deaths of invadees and invaders from friendly fire
dont mind trump dumping in his own pool. stops him from p!ssing in everyone elses
 
I like how you went away, stewed on that for 20 hours, then came back and basically wrote the same post again.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-42926535

Oh dear, do these morons not realise that they are only looking themselves look stupid and intolerant of the opinions of others (tolerance and diversity?)

Credit Cal Parrish and Angela Rayner for their comments.

Personally, I don't agree with Jeremy Corbyn nor Theresa May but I would never contemplate attacking them or threatening/intimidating them.

These vein-bulgers have a LOT to learn about life.
 
Eh an extremely small minority of prattish students (we're taking 4 or 5 people here) do a prattish thing. Now we have tar all students with the same brush as usual.

Everyone has rightly condemned it, lets move on.
 
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