A Political Thread pt. 2

[ncurd]

How British people benefitted from slavery is a very difficult thing to measure IMO. Yes some wealth/benefit will have trickled down from the crown but the country has since been through two world wars with a lot of infrastructure flattened and industries bankrupt. Like many other countries we've had to rebuild almost from scratch.

The key thing for me is who were the people in power and the decision makers re. slavery. I doubt there was a mandate from the people to crack on with it. Look at the post office investigation. It's the decision makers / ex board members being interviewed, held to account and rightly so.

If were going to do anything it would be regaining the money we (the government) paid to slave owners descendants as compensation for freeing their "property" (debt we only paid back in 2015 and was the largest loan we ever took out before the financial crisis and bailing out the banks). Give that out as repreations or build a few brilliant schools..

Fact check: United Kingdom finished paying off debts to slave-owning families in 2015

The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of slave owners for decades after the abolition of slavery in the empire.

eu.usatoday.com

 

[Saintjay]

Seems a stupid argument to be having over what is a working person. It's near enough impossible to define. Heard several definitions today and all could be argued against.

Surely there is a better metric total income, total wealth cash rich vs asset rich etc or something idk.

 

[ncurd]

Seems a stupid argument to be having over what is a working person. It's near enough impossible to define. Heard several definitions today and all could be argued against.

Surely there is a better metric total income, total wealth cash rich vs asset rich etc or something idk.

Its a political argument rather than metric. Landlords who work day job argue they are working people even if their income is supplemented by the assets they own.

The government promised they wouldn't increase tax on working people so are now being attacked by rich media owners for seemingly going after them. I think in the court of public opinion capital gains tax and other taxes on assests will go down fine.

But lets judge the budget by what happens.

 

[ncurd]

It has a very why are they taxing the private schools? Vibe.

 

[General Melchett]

I think Employers NIC is also going to get it. Never thought that CGT and inheritance tax actually raised much tax revenue anyway.

Bit surprised given how Labour boxed themselves in by saying no income tax/NI/VAT rises before the election given their massive lead in the polls and the contempt felt towards the Tories. They could have said a 1 or 2% rise to the higher rate of income tax (with the money going straight to the NHS) and it probably wouldn't have had that much of an impact on their majority.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Don't give a **** about reparations for the most part, don't need it or want a part of it. Any artefacts looted from previous colonies should be returned though.

 

[Amiga500]

Catfishing: Alexander McCartney jailed for minimum of 20 years

A 12-year-old girl in the US took her own life as she was being abused by a man from Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good case for the death sentence if you ask me.

Instead they're be a few hospital beds less due to treasury money spent on keeping that waste of space alive in a prison cell.

[and I can't wrap my head around it only being 20 years]

 

[Saintjay]

The Muslim leaders in Michigan endorsement of Trump has turkey and Christmas vibes.
No idea how or why they feel he will prefer them over Israel or the Jewish community.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Don't give a **** about reparations for the most part, don't need it or want a part of it. Any artefacts looted from previous colonies should be returned though.

I agree about the artefacts but the debate isn't centered around the trans atlantic Irish slave trade (unless we're talking Irish slave owners) so I think it's less about what you want or need and more what you should pay.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The Muslim leaders in Michigan endorsement of Trump has turkey and Christmas vibes.
No idea how or why they feel he will prefer them over Israel or the Jewish community.

Considering how he had proposed banning muslim immigrants, completely supports Israel and calls them vermin, I really can't understand their endorsement at all.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Considering how he had proposed banning muslim immigrants, completely supports Israel and calls them vermin, I really can't understand their endorsement at all.

And the moving of the embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem. Its mad

I guess the thinking might be, if you're fully brought into the idea that this is a genocide, then you know Biden and Harris are complicit in this genocide and there's no excuses. Trump is an unknown and like the Russia stuff, he says he'd sort it in a few days so the appeal might be Trump can stop the genocide. But, yeah, I would say this thinking is flawed but this is the problem with one issue voters.

 

[Gavin]

Anyone watch the Joe Rogan / Trump interview?

I have seen clips but not watched it all. Completely different perceptions people have on it that Trump was amazing and he was a bumbling idiot.

The interaction regarding his ear being shot of was interesting though.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I agree about the artefacts but the debate isn't centered around the trans atlantic Irish slave trade (unless we're talking Irish slave owners) so I think it's less about what you want or need and more what you should pay.

Apologies, read your question about Ireland as should Britain pay reparations to Ireland for the Famine and general Britishness of the time. That tends to be the reparations debate we have over here.

Native Irish people were involved in the slave trade but as British citizens in what was the UK at the time. There were just over 100 slave owners in Ireland (north and south) at the time of compensation following abolition as opposed to ~2,500 in Britain.

It's not really a debate that's had here, the country didn't exist at the time. Slavery has never been legal in the current State and it has nothing to answer for. Any tax on profits would have been paid to the crown (obviously not the primary issue here but relevant).

It's probably very possible to find the descendants of the handful of prominent slave merchants and owners of slave ships but is it their burden?

Then there's the indentured servitude of thousands following the Ulster plantation to consider on the other side of the argument.

Not to downplay that Irish people were involved in the trade and that large portions of our population and diaspora were incredibly racist but I think this is one we can sit out without guilty conscience. Ireland wasn't a big player whatsoever and we've never gone after families in Ireland who can trace their lineage and wealth back to plantations and dispossession, of whom there'd be a large crossover of slave owners, for reparations.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

In the trump vs Bernie comedy act there was a great line from the sanders character.

"Personally I believe that reparations are not feasible but I also think that I am Bernie sanders and that my position is wrong"

Should there be some reparations, probably? Would it cost $600 million to figure out how to do it, yes.

 

[Saintjay]

He might be in a spot of bother.

Labour Party suspends MP Mike Amesbury after video showed him punching man in street

The video showed the MP for Runcorn and Helsby punching a man, who fell to the floor. Mr Amesbury then hit him repeatedly before members of the public intervened.

www.google.com

 

[Becca]

He might be in a spot of bother.

Labour Party suspends MP Mike Amesbury after video showed him punching man in street

The video showed the MP for Runcorn and Helsby punching a man, who fell to the floor. Mr Amesbury then hit him repeatedly before members of the public intervened.

www.google.com

Yes. His suspension might just be the start of it…..

 

[General Melchett]

He might be in a spot of bother.

Labour Party suspends MP Mike Amesbury after video showed him punching man in street

The video showed the MP for Runcorn and Helsby punching a man, who fell to the floor. Mr Amesbury then hit him repeatedly before members of the public intervened.

www.google.com

I've looked at the video evidence and am not seeing any mitigation. There's direct contact to the head with force and so it's a red card.

 

[Reiser99]

I was thinking about Israel and it's attacks on Iran. I know Israel has a right to defend itself and Iran has been indirectly attacking it through militias for years, but recently they have made Iran look weak. I wonder how long that can go on before Iran feels it needs a big victory. Israel is being extremely aggressive right now and if Iran retaliates in a big way then Israel will be to blame for the escalation.

 

[McTallshort]

I was thinking about Israel and it's attacks on Iran. I know Israel has a right to defend itself and Iran has been indirectly attacking it through militias for years, but recently they have made Iran look weak. I wonder how long that can go on before Iran feels it needs a big victory. Israel is being extremely aggressive right now and if Iran retaliates in a big way then Israel will be to blame for the escalation.

For the last year Israel has been hitting Iranian proxies hard and hitting targets in Iran including a Hamas leader. The last set of attacks from Iran were about a billions dollars worth of cruise missiles landing in random places in Israel with most getting shot down. Israel's strikes were precise, punishing and completely unstoppable. If Iran has any sense it will realise that although it can hurt Israel through it's proxies and massed missile attacks, Israel can hurt it a lot more in terms of military and economic strikes. Bombing downtown Tehran killing 100 civilians won't bother the Iranian rulers...hitting it's military infrastructure and military industrial complex will absolutely bother them and that's what Israel have demonstrated they can do.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I was thinking about Israel and it's attacks on Iran. I know Israel has a right to defend itself and Iran has been indirectly attacking it through militias for years, but recently they have made Iran look weak. I wonder how long that can go on before Iran feels it needs a big victory. Israel is being extremely aggressive right now and if Iran retaliates in a big way then Israel will be to blame for the escalation.

Just like the Palestine conflict they're both perfectly set up to fight each other where there's a push and pull thing going on. I can't see how any of it changes unless there's a wholesale change of leadership on all sides. I don't think you can blame just one side on the escalation here. As you say, Iran has been attacking Isreal, directly and indirectly, for years, Hezbollah have been launching rockets since October 8th and before and Isreal clearly has escalated the situation as well.