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A Political Thread pt. 2

Sorry but no, actively trying to deny people their rights, particularly things like voting, and doing things for the sole purpose of "owning the libs" has no foundation in safety whatsoever.

Storming the capitol had nothing to do with safety. The death threats have nothing to do with safety, denying abortion has nothing to do with safety, refusing to do anything about guns definitely had nothing to do with safety, spreading blatant lies have nothing to do with safety, supporting not funding disaster relief and actively undermining attempts to support those hit have nothing to do with safety. Where is the debate to be had? At some point we need to recognise malice where it exists.

If anything what is being proposed is actively harmful. Families are getting torn apart by the actions of the far right, not protected.
I'm not saying that their logic makes sense, but the reality is that *almost* everyone isn't genuinely malicious imo, they are just scared most of the time, which is engineered by a few malicious people.

Whether you agree with them or not, it's a pretty bleak worldview to just presume all these people are evil.

Most of the things you've listed are a weird amalgamation between a number of factors, I don't believe that most of these people are genuinely malicious, as much as I disagree with them
 
Sorry but no, actively trying to deny people their rights, particularly things like voting, and doing things for the sole purpose of "owning the libs" has no foundation in safety whatsoever.

Storming the capitol had nothing to do with safety. The death threats have nothing to do with safety, denying abortion has nothing to do with safety, refusing to do anything about guns definitely had nothing to do with safety, spreading blatant lies have nothing to do with safety, supporting not funding disaster relief and actively undermining attempts to support those hit have nothing to do with safety. Where is the debate to be had? At some point we need to recognise malice where it exists.

If anything what is being proposed is actively harmful. Families are getting torn apart by the actions of the far right, not protected.
Unfortunately I think it is on both sides. It also depends on your definition of far right. I don't think every Republican voter is far right. If you were voting on simply the economy, jobs, cost of living i can see why people would vote Republican rightly or wrongly.

The whole debate has become toxic sensible grown up politics has gone out the window. The language on both sides hasn't helped. Both sides playing on the harm\fears the other candidate will do. I've never know an election where two attempts have been made on a persons life. Dfficult as the trials haven't yet taken place but I doubt the two people who tried to murder Trump are right wing. Still we will have to wait to see the motives
 
So James Cleverly lied about receiving free gifts to go to Wimbledon whilst foreign secretary. Not a peep in the media. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, other than they have now decided that Labour receiving free gifts is a huge deal.
Politicians in being massive hypocrites shocker.
 
Unfortunately I think it is on both sides. It also depends on your definition of far right. I don't think every Republican voter is far right. If you were voting on simply the economy, jobs, cost of living i can see why people would vote Republican rightly or wrongly.

The whole debate has become toxic sensible grown up politics has gone out the window. The language on both sides hasn't helped. Both sides playing on the harm\fears the other candidate will do. I've never know an election where two attempts have been made on a persons life. Dfficult as the trials haven't yet taken place but I doubt the two people who tried to murder Trump are right wing. Still we will have to wait to see the motives
Trump is recorded as admitting sexual assault and bragging about it.

There no both sides on this anyone who finds an excuse to vote for him doesn't have morals.
 
Just to be clear I hate Johnson/Truss/Sunak/Cameron all at various levels of repugnant but I would never sccuse anyone who voted for them of having no morals. (Lunacy of yout were tory member and voted Truss but that's a diffrent problem)
 
I was over in the States for a month recently and was talking with a lifelong Republican voter in the gym. He was well hacked off and feels that his party has been hijacked by Trump and MAGA. He claimed he won't vote for them and will abstain this year. Former leaders like John McCain and Mitt Romney look like saints compared with trout mouth.

I was also talking to a black American woman who said that many black men across the country are switching to Trump because they weren't happy that Harris prosecuted so many men (who happened to be black) under her watch as chief prosecutor. They feel that she should have 'looked after her own' better. This was an eye opener for me and really disappointing to hear.

My take away was that most people will be voting on one or two key issues. As mentioned before, it's all about the economy, immigration and abortion. Unfortunately Trump seemed to be more trusted on the first two according to the polls I saw.
 
I'm not saying that their logic makes sense, but the reality is that *almost* everyone isn't genuinely malicious imo, they are just scared most of the time, which is engineered by a few malicious people.

Whether you agree with them or not, it's a pretty bleak worldview to just presume all these people are evil.

Most of the things you've listed are a weird amalgamation between a number of factors, I don't believe that most of these people are genuinely malicious, as much as I disagree with them
That may be the case but there is also a fairly substantial portion of delusion and flat out refusal to grasp even very basic levels of reasoning. If someone had said Republicans are going into a town and eating the pets, do you honestly think you'd have had as many Democrats voters believing it or Democrat leaders repeating it as you've had Republicans doing both? At best a large segment of those supporting Republicans are intentionally keeping themselves wilfully ignorant by refusing to look outside their bubble of having all their prejudices and fears reinforced. You mentioned about how we can't debate with them because of thinking they are malicious, no we can't debate with them because these ******* idiots believe Haitians are eating pets with NO EVIDENCE and flat out refuse to engage with anything that will tell them otherwise. This same lot refused to listen to evidence that Obama was a natural born citizen, refused to listen to evidence he wasn't Muslim, refused to listen to evidence that Hillary wasn't running a pedo ring from a pizza place, refused to listen to evidence that Covid is not all some big conspiracy, the list goes on and on and on of these people accepting something that fits their prejudice without any evidence and then actively fighting against any attempt to have a reasoned discussion on the matter. THAT is why we cannot have conversations with such people, it's impossible when someone operates like that. Pointing out that's how they are functioning is not the cause of the breakdown, it's merely highlighting it's already there. These aren't remotely believable things, they are sheer nonsense and yet it's been lapped up.

We aren't talking about taking great strides to reach across the aisle and really try to sympathise with what the other side think here, we are talking exercising the bare minimum common sense and reasoning. This is not something that requires much effort at all and yet it's been completely abandoned by large swathes of Republicans and to a lesser degree, the likes of Reform voters here.

Unfortunately I think it is on both sides. It also depends on your definition of far right. I don't think every Republican voter is far right. If you were voting on simply the economy, jobs, cost of living i can see why people would vote Republican rightly or wrongly.

The whole debate has become toxic sensible grown up politics has gone out the window. The language on both sides hasn't helped. Both sides playing on the harm\fears the other candidate will do. I've never know an election where two attempts have been made on a persons life. Dfficult as the trials haven't yet taken place but I doubt the two people who tried to murder Trump are right wing. Still we will have to wait to see the motives
Sorry but this isn't a both sides issue, it is predominantly one side that has driven us to this point. The idea that Republicans are any good the economy the little more than propaganda at this stage, the last 3 Republican administrations all ended mid economic collapse. You may question how much of that is their fault but it's not exactly like they were setting any great economic records prior to any of those collapses either.

The language used to be reasonable but again, it's one side that has largely driven us to here. The 2 are simply not the same. We also know the first Trump shooter was definitely right wing, he was a registered Republican with a long history of espousing right wing views. Why he would choose to assassinate Trump is a mystery. The 2nd looks likely to have been on the left. The issue is that refusing to tolerate intolerance is not itself an intolerance. The Republicans have used inflammatory language and outright lies for decades now. They whinge about Trump righting facing criminal convictions and complain about the language used against him whilst turning a blind eye and ear to the language he has used for years. At some point if you keep dishing out and endless stream of hatred, you will get some back. By all accounts he is an utterly detestable person with no redeeming features. There was no talk about the rhetoric that existing during the Obama years or the rhetoric dished out during the Trump years but now a bit is being fired back at the Republicans and suddenly it's all "the language is too heated". It should not be on one side to constantly tone things down whilst the other has free rein to rant and foam and spit lies and bile.

I may be contributing to it now but I'm sick to the back teeth of the sheer corruption (morally and financially) and hypocrisy that the right in the USA and here have dished out for nearly 2 decades. All the oldest tricks in the book of finding an external enemy to target people at to distract from you are doing have been wheeled out and people have just bloody fallen right for it once again. These people NEED to be held accountable and it leaves a very bitter taste when, to quote Clement Atlee "A Tory minister can sleep in ten different women's beds in a week. A Labour minister gets it in the neck if he looks at his neighbour's wife over the garden fence."
 
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