A Political Thread pt. 2

[ncurd]

Not sure that would be relevant in a global conflict. Sure there are many Ukrainians who are not fit for service currently serving

How effective are they as soldiers? I thought one of the arguments against conscription and national service was it breeds poor soldiering and should really only be done in dire circumstances.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Not sure that would be relevant in a global conflict. Sure there are many Ukrainians who are not fit for service currently serving

As Ncurd says. Are we going to get back to conscription and BS public pressure "do it for King and country?". Imprison pacifists if they refuse, Kill hundreds of thousands for what? This isn't a Call of Duty game.

Let's just wait and see. Just this military person's opinion and right wing newspapers putting out the scaremongering headline.

 

[McTallshort]

How effective are they as soldiers? I thought one of the arguments against conscription and national service was it breeds poor soldiering and should really only be done in dire circumstances.

Most soldiers don't actually fight on the front line. There are many roles from transport, stored, catering, intelligence gathering, pay and admin. then you have jobs in industry, propaganda, civil service etc etc.

As for how effective are citizen armies? Well they fought and won the two biggest conflicts in humanities history.

Regards dire circumstances: we might be there soon.

 

[ncurd]

As Ncurd says. Are we going to get back to conscription and BS public pressure "do it for King and country?". Imprison pacifists if they refuse, Kill hundreds of thousands for what? This isn't a Call of Duty game.

Let's just wait and see. Just this military person's opinion and right wing newspapers putting out the scaremongering headline.

Thats the second issue how do you deal with objectors, people who have legitimate reasons not to fight like their contribution to war effort outside is greater. How do you analyze that without greatly effecting the economically disadvantaged which any application processes always screws over?

I'm not objecting to the idea it might be needed I'm just not entirely sure it (a) effective (b) would be fit for purpose in modern society

 

[ncurd]

As for how effective are citizen armies? Well they fought and won the two biggest conflicts in humanities history.

The German's won?

 

[McTallshort]

As Ncurd says. Are we going to get back to conscription and BS public pressure "do it for King and country?". Imprison pacifists if they refuse, Kill hundreds of thousands for what? This isn't a Call of Duty game.

Let's just wait and see. Just this military person's opinion and right wing newspapers putting out the scaremongering headline.

The Swedish defense minister has said the same. To dismiss this at right wing scaremongering is frankly stupid give the current global situation

 

[McTallshort]

The German's won?

Being obtuse now? Ok fair enough

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The Swedish defense minister has said the same. To dismiss this at right wing scaremongering is frankly stupid give the current global situation

Global conflict is one thing (we've had wars since WW2) - massing up an army based on conscription is another especially made up of men and women who are not fit for purpose as fighting personnel. Even if trained.

 

[Saintjay]

How effective are they as soldiers? I thought one of the arguments against conscription and national service was it breeds poor soldiering and should really only be done in dire circumstances.

They are not great. The Argentine conscripts in the Falklands being a good example.
What we really need is a larger professional military but people don't want the increased costs against other pressures. It's a pretty poorly paid job and not attractive to most people. Better pay and conditions would save a lot of issues.
It's pretty well documented that soldiers don't fight for King and Country when the chips are down they fight for there mates along side them.

 

[McTallshort]

Global conflict is one thing (we've had wars since WW2) - massing up an army based on conscription is another especially made up of men and women who are not fit for purpose as fighting personnel. Even if trained.

I said a global conflict and again most military jobs are not front line ones.

 

[McTallshort]

They are not great. The Argentine conscripts in the Falklands being a good example.
What we really need is a larger professional military but people don't want the increased costs against other pressures. It's a pretty poorly paid job and not attractive to most people. Better pay and conditions would save a lot of issues.
It's pretty well documented that soldiers don't fight for King and Country when the chips are down they fight for there mates along side them.

The Ukrainian army is currently a conscription one and the Russians is contract

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's pretty well documented that soldiers don't fight for King and Country when the chips are down they fight for there mates along side them.

And die alongside them as we saw in WW1 in the trenches.

 

[Saintjay]

And die alongside them as we saw in WW1 in the trenches.

Unfortunately putting yourself in harms way is on the job discription as a professional soldier. Luckily we have people still willing to do that on a professional basis the same as the Police, Fire fighters etc, and luckily people volunteered to do that in both world wars.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I said a global conflict and again most military jobs are not front line ones.

If Putin has any sense he'll try and keep hold of the territory he does have in Ukraine rather than start expanding the conflict beyond.

So, desk jobs if you want them - great like they would give you a choice.

As I said, let's wait and see. Are you making the choice of your sons joining up, if one were to transpire? What do they think? You said one is 11 - so not yet of age even if he wanted to.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Unfortunately putting yourself in harms way is on the job discription as a professional soldier. Luckily we have people still willing to do that on a professional basis the same as the Police, Fire fighters etc, and luckily people volunteered to do that in both world wars.

Yes, that is what I mean - of course if you have a choice you are welcome to join. But not forced into it against your will. Fighting alongside mates in WW1 just meant more soldiers from the same towns and villages dying alongside each other - needlessly.

 

[Saintjay]

The Ukrainian army is currently a conscription one and the Russians is contract

Yes but put a similar sized and equipped fully professional army vs a conscript army. My money is on the pro's. Military given the numbers, strategic location, being the defending force the Argentines should have had at least parity. One of the main issues was they were conscripts and hearts weren't in it. Which i get is probably very different to defending your homeland.

 

[McTallshort]

Yes but put a similar sized and equipped fully professional army vs a conscript army. My money is on the pro's. Military given the numbers, strategic location, being the defending force the Argentines should have had at least parity. One of the main issues was they were conscripts and hearts weren't in it. Which i get is probably very different to defending your homeland.

But that's the point we don't have a large professional army anymore. It's half the size it was 25 years ago and there are a lack of volunteering and a lack of funding for retention to keep it at the size it's at.

I would absolutely want a larger professional army but unfortunately that ship has sailed

 

[McTallshort]

If Putin has any sense he'll try and keep hold of the territory he does have in Ukraine rather than start expanding the conflict beyond.

So, desk jobs if you want them - great like they would give you a choice.

As I said, let's wait and see. Are you making the choice of your sons joining up, if one were to transpire? What do they think? You said one is 11 - so not yet of age even if he wanted to.

I would hate my son's joining up. I did the army thing and at 48 would still rather fight in their place. I'm not saying it's a good thing but I think it might be a necessity.

As for Putin having any sense. Sorry but if the last two years have shown anything it's that Putin and Russia want a full blown confrontation with the West. Listen to what he says and what Russia's media is saying. It's all there

 

[Welsh Exile]

That general dude isnt talking about conscription anyway so don't know why people are discussing it.

It would be completely ridiculous to do anything similar to it on the off chance there's another world war which, imo, isn't on the cards at all after Russias army is getting shown up for being a borderline joke.

Call me a cynic but this is just a old army dude coming to the end of his service who wants more money for the army and wants it to grow so he's throwing in some potential global catastrophe to put some pressure on.

I'm also not convinced that if we were to enter a global war that there would be much need for a large ground based army

 

[McTallshort]

I'm also not convinced that if we were to enter a global war that there would be much need for a large ground based army

And you are basing that on what?