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A Political Thread pt. 2

That general dude isnt talking about conscription anyway so don't know why people are discussing it.

It would be completely ridiculous to do anything similar to it on the off chance there's another world war which, imo, isn't on the cards at all after Russias army is getting shown up for being a borderline joke.

Call me a cynic but this is just a old army dude coming to the end of his service who wants more money for the army and wants it to grow so he's throwing in some potential global catastrophe to put some pressure on.

I'm also not convinced that if we were to enter a global war that there would be much need for a large ground based army
Unfortunately most wars are over land, taking it, defending it / holding it. To do that you need boots on the ground. I agree it's a lot easier to kill people defending or attacking at distance with modern weopons.
 
And you are basing that on what?
The same reason there's been relative peace (in the sense of world wars) for the last 80 years. Nuclear weapons.

Also, we don't need one because we're the wimpy little kid who runs to his big brother (USA) to fight our battles for us.
 
Unfortunately most wars are over land, taking it, defending it / holding it. To do that you need boots on the ground. I agree it's a lot easier to kill people defending or attacking at distance with modern weopons.
I think this is 20th century mindset. I know it's cliche but that Einstein (supposedly) quote about not knowing what weapons will be used in WW3 but knows that WW4 we'll be using sticks and stones sums it up well enough for me.
 
Being obtuse now? Ok fair enough
No just pointing out if you argument is that one side won was it because the other side didn't use them? the logic side won because of it fails because the other side did and lost.
 
No just pointing out if you argument is that one side won was it because the other side didn't use them? the logic side won because of it fails because the other side did and lost.
No the side with the most soldiers and equipment won both world wars, for that you needed citizen armies in the US, Soviet Union and Britain and Commonwealth. There is currently a citizen army in Ukraine who are doing well despite the west's best efforts to stop supplying them.
 
The same reason there's been relative peace (in the sense of world wars) for the last 80 years. Nuclear weapons.

Also, we don't need one because we're the wimpy little kid who runs to his big brother (USA) to fight our battles for us.
There is currently a very large land war in Europe using very large armies and one of the belligerents has a vast nuclear arsenal.

As for running to America, I'm not sure that's worth the risk anymore given many of their elected officials are happy to hang Ukraine out to dry for the sake of a culture war.
 
As for Putin having any sense. Sorry but if the last two years have shown anything it's that Putin and Russia want a full blown confrontation with the West. Listen to what he says and what Russia's media is saying. It's all there
the last two years have shown the war has ground into a war of attrition. Sure he wants Russia to return to to old Soviet borders or influence without the communist connotations but trying to do so through a global land war conflict - I don't think so. Even Putin is not that stupid he'd rather have his war with the west by other means.
 
the last two years have shown the war has ground into a war of attrition. Sure he wants Russia to return to to old Soviet borders or influence without the communist connotations but trying to do so through a global land war conflict - I don't think so. Even Putin is not that stupid he'd rather have his war with the west by other means.
Ironically your less likely to get a war between Putin and Trump. With the later appeasing the other. How ever i would put it past a US led Trump to let the Ukraine / Europe fend for itself against Russia.

It's estimated 95% of Russia's army is tied up in Ukraine and they've lost 40% of there pre-war main battle tanks. So whether they could fight a war against europe without tactical nukes is open for debate. A horrific prospect and personaly I'd hope even the use of tactical nukes they're not that stupid
 
the last two years have shown the war has ground into a war of attrition. Sure he wants Russia to return to to old Soviet borders or influence without the communist connotations but trying to do so through a global land war conflict - I don't think so. Even Putin is not that stupid he'd rather have his war with the west by other means.
Did you think he would invade Ukraine 2 years ago?

It's what he and his media outlets are saying.

As for the war of attrition, Russia seem absolutely fine with it. They are currently on the front foot and have diplomatically managed to cut Ukraine off from it's backers. There is nothing stopping them going for the Baltic states apart from NATO membership and given the current state of American politics and Hungarian behaviour within NATO and the EU it's not such a stupid move. Russia as a state are now completely committed to war with the West. As far as they are concerned they are already fighting NATO.
 
Ironically your less likely to get a war between Putin and Trump. With the later appeasing the other. How ever i would put it past a US led Trump to let the Ukraine / Europe fend for itself against Russia.

It's estimated 95% of Russia's army is tied up in Ukraine and they've lost 40% of there pre-war main battle tanks. So whether they could fight a war against europe without tactical nukes is open for debate. A horrific prospect and personaly I'd hope even the use of tactical nukes they're not that stupid
Using Nuclear weapons whether tactical or strategic would very much isolate Russia from China. A Nuclear state attacking a non nuclear state with nuclear weapons would give the green light to countries like Japan, South Korea possibly even Australia to get Nuclear weapons. It wouldn't actually be that hard for them to do. That would seriously **** the Chinese off who in a stroke would have lost much of its foreign power over the Pacific but again, Russian state media talks about using them all the time.
 
There is currently a very large land war in Europe using very large armies and one of the belligerents has a vast nuclear arsenal.

As for running to America, I'm not sure that's worth the risk anymore given many of their elected officials are happy to hang Ukraine out to dry for the sake of a culture war.
This is a very fair point and definitely warrants pause for thought. There's no way I thought you would see tanks moving across Europe like we did with Russia into Ukraine. However, weirdly it kind of almost proves my point in that we're talking about global world wars and there was never any real danger of the Ukraine conflict turning into one.

I totally accept you don't want to be complacent about these things and Putin is clearly a problem but almost a toothless one now really unless there was a world war but then nukes would be on the table and then we're all ******.
 
Did you think he would invade Ukraine 2 years ago?
He was massing troops on the border and American intelligence was saying he was going to invade. So yes.

Putin also thought he'd take Kyiv in a matter of days and the Ukraine people would welcome them. How sadly wrong he was.

It's what he and his media outlets are saying.

As for the war of attrition, Russia seem absolutely fine with it. They are currently on the front foot and have diplomatically managed to cut Ukraine off from its backers. There is nothing stopping them going for the Baltic states apart from NATO membership and given the current state of American politics and Hungarian behaviour within NATO and the EU it's not such a stupid move. Russia as a state are now completely committed to war with the West. As far as they are concerned they are already fighting NATO.
This is going beyond an actual global conflict happening which started this discussion and should be saved for the Ukraine thread.
 
This is a very fair point and definitely warrants pause for thought. There's no way I thought you would see tanks moving across Europe like we did with Russia into Ukraine. However, weirdly it kind of almost proves my point in that we're talking about global world wars and there was never any real danger of the Ukraine conflict turning into one.

I totally accept you don't want to be complacent about these things and Putin is clearly a problem but almost a toothless one now really unless there was a world war but then nukes would be on the table and then we're all ******.
There is absolutely a real danger of it escalating into a global war give Iran and North Korea are now firmly committed to Russia's side and are getting god knows what to pay for the drones and shells they are supplying Russia with.

As for being toothless I'm not getting that. Yes they have lost a lot of men and equipment but the Russian economy has almost fully gone over to a war footing with production of armes running at about 30% of its GDP. It can sustain this due to very low national debt before the war. It's production of missiles has tripled and it's vehicle production is increasing, they also haven't fully mobilised yet.

Russia has struggled to defeat Ukraine but it has and is learning, they have managed to cut off Ukraine's weapon supplies.

There could be a very real scenario where you have a very battle hardened and bloodied Russian army sat on the border of NATO, with a political elite screaming for more war
 
6 months before it happened?
Well no of course not.

But linking that to there's going to be a global conflict and by that I mean militarily is a big jump as it stands. Based on an old coot who wants massive military spending, no doubt but then conscription? Well,I don't agree with it and I am not sure any global conflict will involve a military one, certainly one of that scale.

It will be fought by other means - cyber or other technological without requiring massive deployment of civilian troops through conscription.
 
There is absolutely a real danger of it escalating into a global war give Iran and North Korea are now firmly committed to Russia's side and are getting god knows what to pay for the drones and shells they are supplying Russia with.

As for being toothless I'm not getting that. Yes they have lost a lot of men and equipment but the Russian economy has almost fully gone over to a war footing with production of armes running at about 30% of its GDP. It can sustain this due to very low national debt before the war. It's production of missiles has tripled and it's vehicle production is increasing, they also haven't fully mobilised yet.

Russia has struggled to defeat Ukraine but it has and is learning, they have managed to cut off Ukraine's weapon supplies.

There could be a very real scenario where you have a very battle hardened and bloodied Russian army sat on the border of NATO, with a political elite screaming for more war
Good point, nothing beats training for war than actually fighting.
 
Did you think he would invade Ukraine 2 years ago?

It's what he and his media outlets are saying.

As for the war of attrition, Russia seem absolutely fine with it. They are currently on the front foot and have diplomatically managed to cut Ukraine off from it's backers. There is nothing stopping them going for the Baltic states apart from NATO membership and given the current state of American politics and Hungarian behaviour within NATO and the EU it's not such a stupid move. Russia as a state are now completely committed to war with the West. As far as they are concerned they are already fighting NATO.
TBH I thought he'd invade again after he took Crimea. He's got away with it without resistance for too long. Now he has faced resistance but is seeing the west crumbling away at the concept of mild inconvenience to help a country against Russia whilst Russia is prepared to jump feet first into the meat grinder.

Ironically I think an escalation by the West in Ukraine to push Russia out is safer than letting Russia win and trying to deal with an emboldened and even more manic dictator at the head of a country on a war footing. History tells us you never get peace from such a situation.
 
We are the extremely wealthy and ped abusing older brother who hasn't taken his bipolar medication for 24 years.

But yeah, if nato worked the way it's supposed to we would just step in and you'd pay for it with a cultural tax.
 
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