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A look ahead: the 2014 Six Nations

it sounds like ppl are actually srs about the France post-Lions thing ?

Anyways, as far as France goes, based on the past 3 EOYT tests, here is the report (unless injured):
loosely based on an article

1-3: In between a this time fresh Thomas Domingo/Yannick Forestier and certainty for Mas for props, with Slimani pleasing for a tighthead rookie and Debaty always behind as the impact carrying loosehead prop off the bench.

2: Kayser and Szar solid this November, both playing at a high level, Kayser seemingly the preferred choice. Younger, he looks like our prop for the next few years.

4-5: everybody's been pleased with ex-captain Papé, while Maestri didn't look very energetic. Vahaamahina has further demonstrated his qualities most certainly. A choice to be made between the latter two for second lock. Parisian Flanquart still in the talks.

6-7-8: Most probably Picamoles at 8, with a very pleasing Chouly. Versatile but not nearly as imposing and powerful as the Toulousain no. 8. Dusautoir still was the best tackler statistically in November, and he seems to always be a lock. While Wenceslas Lauret looked amazing against the AB, he disappointed against the Boks. Very powerful, but too light perhaps.
There are still Nyanga, Ouedraogo (back from injury). Bernard le Roux has had some solid minutes, while Claassen seems to drop in popularity. I don't personally think he has that int'l caliber, so I'm glad. Plus, less poaching is always best.

9-10: still some big questions. Talès has had some good and some bad, but was very solid against the AB. But then very mediocre against the Boks. Camille Lopez has had zero game time with Michalak coming in as a substitute, but looked good in those 20min he played. With Machenaud out, Parra looked like the only solution. Now with Parra and his slow-ball out, a chance for Doussain to show some more of that ability, with a very promising Pélissié who'll need to show some more in the Top 14 before.

12-13: Fofana, no discussion. Fritz and Fickou played exactly as much (127min apiece). Fickou still is too young, and will have to let Toulouse teammate Fritz start in the 6N, surely. Huge on defense always, and a fantastic option on attack. With Bastareaud perpetuating his impact player role, while Mermoz has lost credit, rightfully so I say.

11-14-15: Dulin an absolute certainty at 15. He's played the entire 240min this Fall, and has held his own consistently in Fullback duty and more (high ball, last line of defense, quickness, ball in hand and particularly countering).
Then the well publicized success of rookie Sofiane Guitoune, still top of the Top14 for tries scored with 7 so far (tied with Fijian winger Talibula); he's become an absolute protégé of Saint-André's. He says of him that he "stinks Rugby", as in it oozes out of him :p
But Médard-Huget seems like too sound a combination, that's worked, and that offers good qualities often.
Clerc still is down of course, unfortunately, and the other options we've had before, Marc Andreu, Alexis Palisson, Adrien Planté (or potential recrutes from the Top14) seem less and less likely.
 
it sounds like ppl are actually srs about the France post-Lions thing ?

Why wouldn't we be? France's lock on the tournament in these years is a matter of historical record. Its very easy to see logical reasons for it. The physical and mental burnout that comes with a Lions tour is huge. The best players in the home nations will be less fit and less focused than usual this Six Nations. A high injury rate might well be expected too.

That said - the majority of England's important players didn't tour. We might be ok there.
 
Out of interest, does anyone have stats to hand for how well Italy have done in post-Lions years? Or even Scotland, given they've not provided many players to the last four tours. I remember 2006 going well (possibly our best ever 6N?), and I think 2010 was the year of Dan Parks, with a win against Ireland, a draw against England, and that game against Wales.
 
Why wouldn't we be? France's lock on the tournament in these years is a matter of historical record. Its very easy to see logical reasons for it. The physical and mental burnout that comes with a Lions tour is huge. The best players in the home nations will be less fit and less focused than usual this Six Nations. A high injury rate might well be expected too.

That said - the majority of England's important players didn't tour. We might be ok there.

oh please, if any int'l players are tired it's the French ones. There may be truth to what you're proposing, I don't know, but it's got to be a coincidence every single time for a vast portion of the reason. Home nations would need to have horrible EOYT's every single time consistently for that to be true, and even then nothing guarantees for a fact it's the Lions tours that are at fault. They're exhausting, sure, but they're in the summer. Players go through a lot on both ends, home nations *and* France.
 
ianw16

The point about England's exciting wingers and 15's who have thus far been excldued from the set-up, is that they don't only score tries from structured btis of play starting from the fly-half - Christian Wade(sadly injured as is well documented above) is a super counter-attacking and can exploit the tiniest mis-match. Same with Johnny May from what I've seen. Mike Brown is best, like many 15's, when attacking from deep. Players like Nowell, Daly, Wade and Watson can form an outside backs trio to threaten any side, and therefore I can't agree with your the idea that exciting backs are pointless without a better 10. Certainly I agree that we need a better 10 to get the best out of them.

I also have to disagree about Tuilagi - he's rarely been shown up in defence and to my mind makes pretty good decisions with and without the ball - the exception being that he doesn't pass enough. To re-iterate, he DOESN'T pass, not that he can't - if you watch him for Leicester it's clear he can distribute well enough, albeit I wouldn't want him at 10!

About Farrell: Yep, not a fan. But the issue isn't only that he crabs though; in order to not crab I would say that you need the skills to be able to yourself threaten the gain-line. He crabs sometimes because the defence is up at him and because he doesn't have the skill-set to do anything about it. If he always ran straight he would more often than not hit a brick-wall.
 
Why wouldn't we be? France's lock on the tournament in these years is a matter of historical record. Its very easy to see logical reasons for it. The physical and mental burnout that comes with a Lions tour is huge. The best players in the home nations will be less fit and less focused than usual this Six Nations. A high injury rate might well be expected too.

That said - the majority of England's important players didn't tour. We might be ok there.

The majority of england's important players didn't tour but a large chunk of them are injured.
 
Out of interest, does anyone have stats to hand for how well Italy have done in post-Lions years? Or even Scotland, given they've not provided many players to the last four tours. I remember 2006 going well (possibly our best ever 6N?), and I think 2010 was the year of Dan Parks, with a win against Ireland, a draw against England, and that game against Wales.
our last six nations went well our first back to back win and could off beaten wales and france and england clearly deserved to beat us that game played very well
 
Players like Nowell, Daly, Wade and Watson can form an outside backs trio to threaten any side, and therefore I can't agree with your the idea that exciting backs are pointless without a better 10. Certainly I agree that we need a better 10 to get the best out of them.

At club level maybe. Point is, they've got one cap between the lot of them, and therefore haven't yet shown that they could do it on the international scene, against the very best. It's a big jump from club to international level. They may well turn out to be the real deal, but at the moment they are just young club players. I've seen a number of players who looked quite promising when they first come on the scene in the Premiership, but, imo, the length of the season and number of games they play, tends to reduce them to a common baseline of mediocrity and/or injury problems. Time will tell, I guess.
However, the question has to be, when, and against whom, will Lancaster risk them, assuming he's going to? 6N? Unlikely I'd have thought, unless forced into it by even more injuries. End of season trip to NZ? That could scar them for life, unless he uses a few of them in the tour match against the Crusaders. Then you've got next years AI's, followed by the 6N, then the RWC. Not many opportunities really, unless he's prepared to risk losing a few games just to find out. Admittedly, anyone with two working legs would be an improvement on Ashton.
Injuries to some players will not help matters either, particularly Wade and Yarde, as they would probably have got game time in the AI's and 6N.
Despite being almost two years until the RWC, the time for experimenting is actually getting quite short.
 
No one's talking about us, good that's the way we like it. If this keeps up we'll go out smash Wales get the whole country's hopes up...and then go to ****. If we start being talked about we'll be **** from the start and smash France.

Or Joe Schmidt may give us the good type of consistency.
 
No one's talking about us, good that's the way we like it. If this keeps up we'll go out smash Wales get the whole country's hopes up...and then go to ****. If we start being talked about we'll be **** from the start and smash France.

Or Joe Schmidt may give us the good type of consistency.

Great ! Now Ireland will surely get the GS !! :D
 
Great ! Now Ireland will surely get the GS !! :D

Ah no because as soon as it looks like Ireland could get a GS people will talk about them and then they'll lose. Nothing affects the performance of an Irishman more than having someone talking about them :p
 
Hard to go passed England and France, Wales and Ireland are capable if they can keep the tempo high but only IF...
Scotland and Ireland have respectable packs but their back lines seem to lack nouse and flair.
It's a weird tournament with no home and away and strange breaks in the middle.
I have never warmed to it but I will watch the top four teams play each other in hope of a good game.
It's a distant shadow to the new RC set up.
 
Ah no because as soon as it looks like Ireland could get a GS people will talk about them and then they'll lose. Nothing affects the performance of an Irishman more than having someone talking about them :p

well...I wasn't exactly serious in the first place though.

Hard to go passed England and France, Wales and Ireland are capable if they can keep the tempo high but only IF...
Scotland and Ireland have respectable packs but their back lines seem to lack nouse and flair.
It's a weird tournament with no home and away and strange breaks in the middle.
I have never warmed to it but I will watch the top four teams play each other in hope of a good game.
It's a distant shadow to the new RC set up.

lol, what ? :huh:
 
At club level maybe. Point is, they've got one cap between the lot of them, and therefore haven't yet shown that they could do it on the international scene, against the very best. It's a big jump from club to international level. They may well turn out to be the real deal, but at the moment they are just young club players. I've seen a number of players who looked quite promising when they first come on the scene in the Premiership, but, imo, the length of the season and number of games they play, tends to reduce them to a common baseline of mediocrity and/or injury problems. Time will tell, I guess.
However, the question has to be, when, and against whom, will Lancaster risk them, assuming he's going to? 6N? Unlikely I'd have thought, unless forced into it by even more injuries. End of season trip to NZ? That could scar them for life, unless he uses a few of them in the tour match against the Crusaders. Then you've got next years AI's, followed by the 6N, then the RWC. Not many opportunities really, unless he's prepared to risk losing a few games just to find out. Admittedly, anyone with two working legs would be an improvement on Ashton.
Injuries to some players will not help matters either, particularly Wade and Yarde, as they would probably have got game time in the AI's and 6N.
Despite being almost two years until the RWC, the time for experimenting is actually getting quite short.

See I don't buy this - I think that its obvious when a player has class enough to make the step up. If you're a class apart at club level you're very rarely not still a talent at international level. In the cases of May and Wade I have no doubt they can make the step up with some to spare. Yarde? Well I'm less certain because it seems to me he's only just burst onto the scene where usually england coaches "treat em mean, keep em keen" for a few years before capping them. I can't claim to hve watched many games with watson or nowell, though have been very impressed with both when I happen to see them - Daly I need to shut up about but the guy is naturally gifted in lots of facets. An english 13 who can run straight - oh my!
 
I think it'll be a very evenly matched tournament. France will benefit from no post-Lions hangover. England benefit from an improving team and great self belief. Wales benefit from their winning mentality recently in the competition. Ireland benefit from finally having a top class coach. Scotland and Italy, erm, take part too.
 
I think it'll be a very evenly matched tournament. France will benefit from no post-Lions hangover. England benefit from an improving team and great self belief. Wales benefit from their winning mentality recently in the competition. Ireland benefit from finally having a top class coach. Scotland and Italy, erm, take part too.

Scotland and Italy can benefit from not getting the wooden spoon last year :D
 
I think it'll be a very evenly matched tournament. France will benefit from no post-Lions hangover. England benefit from an improving team and great self belief. Wales benefit from their winning mentality recently in the competition. Ireland benefit from finally having a top class coach. Scotland and Italy, erm, take part too.

you bassterd !! :p

P.S.: behold. This post is post no. 3333, surely, something of importance.
 
It's a distant shadow to the new RC set up.

I can't agree with that, the 6N is almost on a par with the RWC for me.

Although the quality of rugby is clearly higher in the RC... the competition itself has nothing on the 6N.
 
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